Mandatory Gun Training?

[aturk]

...and let me guess. They come out the other side completely safe and Ohio's permit holders have an appreciable lower ND rate than Indiana LTCH holders, right?

Somewhat related: have you heard of the concept of "feel good" legislation?

Not stating anything what so every about how good the mandatory training is. But the CCW training I personally received was decent. Back when I had to take it, it was two days. One day in the classroom, one day on the range. One woman in our class did not pass. But at least I know in Ohio, anyone who has a CCW/CHL has at least shot a gun.

This is basically how I feel about driver's licenses. You probably wouldn't want a slew of people running around with a driver's license who have never drove a car before, right? There will be of course people that naturally excel, and some will probably even seek further defensive driving/open track training. Even if the average 16yr old doesn't not drive great right out of driver's ed, they at least have some experience.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Reasons like the lady doing show and tell with her revolver is why the 75 yr old guy I train with says to never ask what a person is carrying or what they carry. It only leads to show and tell with someone getting muzzle swept.

I did it at a sign shop several weeks and one dude was showing me his EDC and pointing his LCP at the back of a co-workers head. When I called him out he said "there's not one in the pipe". His co-worker turned around and gave us both a stupid look.

I told him you never point the muzzle at anything your not willing to destroy.
His co-worker looked around again this time with more of a shocked look.

 

[bwframe]

Not stating anything what so every about how good the mandatory training is. But the CCW training I personally received was decent. Back when I had to take it, it was two days. One day in the classroom, one day on the range. One woman in our class did not pass...

I don't agree with mandatory training. That said, ten years ago I took a mandatory class for the non resident Utah carry license requirements. I learned more about safe gun handling in that class than I had in 40 some odd years of owning, carrying, shooting firearms.

People don't know what they don't know.

 

[Doublehelix]

Did I mention that the Ruger revolver had the cylinder FULLY loaded?

 

[Joniki]

Did I mention that the Ruger revolver had the cylinder FULLY loaded?

And why wouldn't it be fully loaded?

 

[eldirector]

I don't agree with mandatory training. That said, ten years ago I took a mandatory class for the non resident Utah carry license requirements. I learned more about safe gun handling in that class than I had in 40 some odd years of owning, carrying, shooting firearms.

People don't know what they don't know.

I also took the required Utah CCW class. What a flipping joke. The "instructor" shows the class how to rack the slide of his pistol on his belt. And then swept 90% of the class. I hope that wasn't part of the official curriculum.

The permit was handy for a few years. The training was worth less than zero.

I STRONGLY support being educated in all that you do. Firearms, voting, speaking, worship, you job, your family, etc.... Requiring it as a condition of practice? No. Requiring it be delivered by the Government? Ha! No. Incentivising it? Hmmm.. Maybe. We already have incentives for marriage with taxes.

But, these "common sense" gun control measures aren't about safety. They are simply ways to prevent a few more folks from exercising their rights. Its about control. Always has been, always will be.

 

[gregr]

Well, while I dont disagree we all need training, mandatory is wrong.

I might change my tune when we first have:

Mandatory civics classes prior to allowing citizens to vote (and mandatory voterID, purple finger ink, etc)
Mandatory parenting classes for those wanting to have kids
Mandatory economics/home finance classes for those wanting govt handouts
etc, etc, etc

Bingo. And to the OP, did you speak with anyone at the indoor range before you left about what just transpired? They needed to know.

And not to sound trite, but, what you just said is exactly what the anti-gunners say, when they say we need more, "reasonable, common sense gun control". It`s to save lives, and all that. But, freedom comes with risks, doesn`t it? And once government may mandate testing or training, then it`s not a right anymore, but a privilege granted by the state. But, you already know that.

I hate it for you, what all you went through. Had it been me, I would have spoken with the guy at the range about him sweeping everyone, and being unsafe, then informed the range staff too. Sounds like you`re doing the right thing with the colleague, and that

 

[gregr]

I don't agree with mandatory training. That said, ten years ago I took a mandatory class for the non resident Utah carry license requirements. I learned more about safe gun handling in that class than I had in 40 some odd years of owning, carrying, shooting firearms.

People don't know what they don't know.

Sure enough. And certainly, everyone ought to get as much training as they have an interest in and can afford. At a minimum, the basic gun handling and safety training. But again, not mandated by the state.

 

[gregr]

Not stating anything what so every about how good the mandatory training is. But the CCW training I personally received was decent. Back when I had to take it, it was two days. One day in the classroom, one day on the range. One woman in our class did not pass. But at least I know in Ohio, anyone who has a CCW/CHL has at least shot a gun.

This is basically how I feel about driver's licenses. You probably wouldn't want a slew of people running around with a driver's license who have never drove a car before, right? There will be of course people that naturally excel, and some will probably even seek further defensive driving/open track training. Even if the average 16yr old doesn't not drive great right out of driver's ed, they at least have some experience.

Thing is, driving a car isn`t a constitutionally protected right...

 

[gregr]

Same subject came up in the classes I taught yesterday and the day before.
Even with all the stupid stuff I see people do constantly and all the stupid stuff I read about people doing constantly, I am, still, opposed to mandatory training to obtain a discretionary, government issued permit to exercise a constitutionally protected/guaranteed right.

We, as a people, have abdicated and projected sovereign rights onto others to control us by licensing portions of those rights back to us as privileges.

Although Indiana is one of the least restrictive states, the first eight pages (8 pages!) of IC 35-47-2 address solely the License to Carry a Handgun.
Rather than mandated training or even training paid for by "the government," I like the idea of a tax credit, to a certain level, for firearms training. That subject came up toward the end of a recent appearance on the NRA's Cam & Company show.
https://www.nratv.com/series/cam-an...episode/cam-and-company-season-13-episode-132

 

[ATM]

Fully loaded, partially loaded or unloaded, teach them to ALWAYS keep them pointed in a safe direction. Firmly correct and/or just go ahead and tackle them when they ignorantly/negligently pose a threat with a gun.

Nothing further than being corrected/tackled by those in the know should be required. Everyone will get it quick enough if we all start doing this.

 

[Ggreen]

All those "excellent" firearms "instructors" out there... Mandatory training for a right granted by the constitution is ridiculous. Responsible ownership and use is the sole responsibility of the user/owner. We have had driving schools forever and there are still idiots who kill people everyday with their cars in totally preventable "accidents". Mandatory training is not the answer, personal responsibility is the answer. As a responsible shooter I feel it is ok to correct an obvious safety violation. I think most of us who shoot at public ranges have had "muzzle moments", but I've had a lot more incidents of people endangering my life on the road in automotive near misses. I don't care how much training you mandate there will always be those who pass then brain dump. We need to be better decision makers as a whole and be humble enough to judge our abilities to carry a gun or seek personalized training.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

Ohio requires mandatory weapons training before one can apply for a permit.

Obviously it doesn't work....

I was going to say the same thing...funny how that be.

As for the first scenario, point the jackwagon out to the RSO or the owner to have them removed so they don't endanger anyone else. Super simple stuff.

 

[LarryC]

Rather Ironic to me that you think mandatory training would help and use as an example of someone (your coworker) from Ohio demonstrating extreme bad firearm discipline. Since she had a carry permit from Ohio, the training you think might help is required to get the permit. Seems like you could make the case mandatory training caused her to have bad habits, right? It is quite obvious it certainly didn't help her! In the early 50's when I started handling firearms and hunting, there were NO TRAINING available except in Uncle Sam's military. However all of my friends and I apparently were pretty safe as we all handled firearms frequently and I cannot remember ANY incident where anyone was injured by a person carrying or shooting any firearm. We were all somewhat trained by fathers. brothers or in my case my BIL as my father had passed. Having handled firearms for the last 60+ years without any ND, AD or damage to anything I didn't intend to damage, apparently my "Training" was sufficient.

Nope, I see zero advantage to mandatory training ~ those with common sense will not be dangerous, ~ those without common sense will be dangerous no matter how much training is obtained.

 

[NIFT]

All those "excellent" firearms "instructors" out there... Mandatory training for a right granted by the constitution is ridiculous. Responsible ownership and use is the sole responsibility of the user/owner. We have had driving schools forever and there are still idiots who kill people everyday with their cars in totally preventable "accidents". Mandatory training is not the answer, personal responsibility is the answer. As a responsible shooter I feel it is ok to correct an obvious safety violation. I think most of us who shoot at public ranges have had "muzzle moments", but I've had a lot more incidents of people endangering my life on the road in automotive near misses. I don't care how much training you mandate there will always be those who pass then brain dump. We need to be better decision makers as a whole and be humble enough to judge our abilities to carry a gun or seek personalized training.

Pretty much agree, except the right to keep and bear arms is not granted by the Constitution. Rather, it is confirmed and protected by the Constitution. The right to keep and bear arms is one of many unalienable rights endowed by our Creator. It did not originate with the Constitution or any other aspect of government. On the contrary, governments are instituted to secure those unalienable rights.

Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ..."

 

[Joniki]

Rather Ironic to me that you think mandatory training would help and use as an example of someone (your coworker) from Ohio demonstrating extreme bad firearm discipline. Since she had a carry permit from Ohio, the training you think might help is required to get the permit. Seems like you could make the case mandatory training caused her to have bad habits, right? It is quite obvious it certainly didn't help her! In the early 50's when I started handling firearms and hunting, there were NO TRAINING available except in Uncle Sam's military. However all of my friends and I apparently were pretty safe as we all handled firearms frequently and I cannot remember ANY incident where anyone was injured by a person carrying or shooting any firearm. We were all somewhat trained by fathers. brothers or in my case my BIL as my father had passed. Having handled firearms for the last 60+ years without any ND, AD or damage to anything I didn't intend to damage, apparently my "Training" was sufficient.

Nope, I see zero advantage to mandatory training ~ those with common sense will not be dangerous, ~ those without common sense will be dangerous no matter how much training is obtained.

Dang fine post right here....

My grand-father and father taught me about gun safety in the early sixties. I hunted rabbits with a single shot 410 and did quite well. I still hunt rabbits with that 410.

I have had a ND once, and I learned my lesson. That was a revolver that I had a gunsmith do a trigger job on. Never again.

I have taught my children and grandchildren gun safety and would not hesitate to shoot with them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Tax breaks for firearm sellers that have firearm classes, and who pass along part of those savings to the customer via the price of the gun. For example you buy a gun from a shop offering classes. The shop gets a tax break for every person that purchases a firearm from them and takes the safety class. The shop discounts the price of the gun, partially, due to getting the break. No one is forced to take the class. Could that work?

 

[Bennettjh]

Thing is, driving a car isn`t a constitutionally protected right...

In driver's education the teacher kept repeating, "driving is a privilege, not a right".

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Tax breaks for firearm sellers that have firearm classes, and who pass along part of those savings to the customer via the price of the gun. For example you buy a gun from a shop offering classes. The shop gets a tax break for every person that purchases a firearm from them and takes the safety class. The shop discounts the price of the gun, partially, due to getting the break. No one is forced to take the class. Could that work?

Above the line tax deductions for tuition, ammo, travel and lodging for gun training? Are you some sort of lunatic like Kirk Freeman or something?

I am offended.

 

[ATM]