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  • Leo

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 3, 2011
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    Lafayette, IN
    If I knew any ammo lot to be known as bad, that would be the end of consideration for me. There was some African 7.62 X 51 about 20 years ago. I scrapped my purchase out without even firing a single shot.

    The trick to pulling down any military 30-06 ammo is knowing if the brass is thicker and needing a lesser powder charge.

    Pretty easy to do. The ammo that you pull apart is already sized. Empty the unknown powder out. Fill the case to the top with the powder you want to use. ie: IMR 4895. Strike it off with a straight edge. Weigh the powder. Maybe do this to a few cases. Now do the same to several pieces of sized 30-06 commercial brass. Compare the powder charge weights. If the case you want to use is within maybe a grain weight, use M1 data for commercial cases. If the case you want holds significantly less powder than a commercial case, use the M1 Data for USGI military cases. The gas system on the M1 is not designed for heavy loads.

    The NRA has tried and true load data for the proper 150 grain flat base bullet loads in both USGI military thickness cases and also for modern US Commercial cases. the data is usually found around the Highpower competition information.

    I would not worry about the primers. A proper M1 load is low enough pressure, even IF the primer is a little hot, it will still be inside normal pressure. You can make your own decision.

    The people that got in trouble and bent their op roads were using Heavy 180-200 grain hunting bullets that have a long bearing surface usually driven by slower magnum rifle powder like 4350 and 4831.

    Good luck
     

    Leo

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    Corrosive priming is not that bad if you realize what you have. A lot of early M1 US military match grade ammo was corrosive primers. It does not corrode immediately, it takes time. You just have to properly clean it that night.

    Take the rifle out of the stock and fill the barrel with liquid soap, not detergent. Then use a metal funnel and run boiling water through the barrel. Blow it out with air and run a heavily oiled patch through it several times. Now clean it like normal with your regular favorite bore cleaner / rust preventative. Muzzle loader guys are used to this routine, as were our grandfathers who shot before WWII.
     

    2in1evtime

    Master
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    61   1   0
    Oct 30, 2011
    3,444
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    retired-midwest
    In the past i have had to stocks get damaged shooting turkish 8mm ammo, did pull a lot of bullets and found up to 3 grain variations on the hi side in many, I also had some 30-06 turkish i had never shot so i checked it also, pulled a lot of bullets, found large deviations in the powder also, glad i never ran it thru a m1 myself. After all of the issues with turkish i did a lot od internet searches and found it was a really big problem in 8mm and 30-06, needless to say i ave no turkish ammo in either caliber around anymore! hopefully your operating rod wasn't bent, and no other damage was done to trigger or trigger housing assembly.
     

    Creedmoor

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    6   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,437
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    Madison Co Indiana
    TJ, do you recall if this rifle has the full round or upgraded half round firing pin?

    I still believe it was either a oob or slamfire.
    The bottom 1/4" of the case is smoked and its tough to split a case on the side like that if its fully chambered.
     

    TJ Kackowski

    Let it begin here.
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    Jun 8, 2012
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    Hendricks County
    Lots of research to do and plenty of time to do it. Got ahold of the CMP today and I'm on the waiting list for their Custom Shop. According to Miss Tiffany, it will be 6 months before I can expect my number to be called.

    I have one lead on an alternate M1 gunsmith. Any other leads on quality M1 gunsmiths are greatly appreciated.

    Before I put another round through this rifle it will need to be completely torn down and inspected front to back and top to bottom ... every component will need to be in spec or replaced with a component that is in spec.

    The ammo issue is beginning to look pretty dim. Given what's noted on the CMP forums, I may have some real crap ammo with this MKE 65.

    Anybody know about MKE 78? That's the other lot that I purchased.
     

    2in1evtime

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    Lots of research to do and plenty of time to do it. Got ahold of the CMP today and I'm on the waiting list for their Custom Shop. According to Miss Tiffany, it will be 6 months before I can expect my number to be called.

    I have one lead on an alternate M1 gunsmith. Any other leads on quality M1 gunsmiths are greatly appreciated.

    Before I put another round through this rifle it will need to be completely torn down and inspected front to back and top to bottom ... every component will need to be in spec or replaced with a component that is in spec.

    The ammo issue is beginning to look pretty dim. Given what's noted on the CMP forums, I may have some real crap ammo with this MKE 65.

    Anybody know about MKE 78? That's the other lot that I purchased.
    I wouldn't run any more turkish thru your M1, I would pull the bullets and just kill everything else, I have a bunch of once fired lake city brass , i could set you up with some so you could load for it, i do have some cans of hxp i might let one go but it isn't cheap like in the past
     

    red_zr24x4

    UA#190
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    4   0   0
    Mar 14, 2009
    28,796
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    Walkerton
    On a similar note, Indian 308 has a bad lot, I'd have to look it up. It's posted on the M14 forum.
    Brand new M1a and my brother gave me some Indian 308, first mag, about the 4 th round.
    It blew the bottom out of the mag.
     

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    Leo

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    Mar 3, 2011
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    Lafayette, IN
    There was also some German surplus machine gun ammo that was breaking M1a rifles. It was probably fine in a loose barrel machine gun, but a good tight rifle barrel would be over pressure. The Brand started with a "H", something like 'heitenberg' but I cannot remember the name for sure. I will try to find the details.
     
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    2in1evtime

    Master
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    Oct 30, 2011
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    On a similar note, Indian 308 has a bad lot, I'd have to look it up. It's posted on the M14 forum.
    Brand new M1a and my brother gave me some Indian 308, first mag, about the 4 th round.
    It blew the bottom out of the mag.
    Yeah i had a couple thousand rounds of that years ago, ended up selling it to a guy and he ran it all thru a 1919a4 had no issues there but it was hell on rifle stocks as i found out!
     

    92FSTech

    Expert
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    3   0   0
    Dec 24, 2020
    1,157
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    North Central
    Yikes! Sorry about your rifle, and I'm glad nobody was hurt. I think I'd be done with that ammo...not sure I'd even trust that brass to reload. Could be those rounds are overcharged, but it could also be bad metallurgy in the cases. I have some old surplus .303 that we reloaded, and the brass is clearly more brittle than the modern stuff, not sure if that's due to the original metallurgy or just the age/improper storage, but I have to keep a close eye on it and am only using it for light cast bullet loads that I neck size for. The SMLEs also have a nasty habit of stretching brass due to their rear-lugged bolt design, but even with that in mind that old brass just doesn't hold up like new manufacture stuff.

    I had what was almost a case head separation last week in a .30-06. I'm not sure if it was my 03A3 or my Garand...I was shooting them both and didn't find it until I got home, but one of the cases had a crack with some obvious gas seepage about 1/2" up from the base, and it went about 3/4 of the way around the circumference of the case. R-P (Remington) brass. Probably just too many reloads for that one, but I'm glad it held together...would have broken my heart to blow up one of my rifles.

    I hope there's no damage to yours beyond the stock. The CMP makes a nice one, but if you're looking for an original, and trying to keep it affordable, S+S has them for cheap. I saw them the other day when looking for something else and almost bought one just because it seemed like too good a deal to pass up, but ended up talking myself out of it because money is kinda tight at the moment and I don't need to be buying stuff that I don't really need. I have no affiliation with the company, but I've bought from them before and they did right by me: https://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GS177. They also have handguards and other parts if you need them.
     

    DoggyDaddy

    Grandmaster
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    73   0   1
    Aug 18, 2011
    102,084
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    Southside Indy
    There was also some German surplus machine gun ammo that was breaking M1a rifles. It was probably fine in a loose barrel machine gun, but a good tight rifle barrel would be over pressure. The Brand started with a "H", something like 'heitenberg' but I cannot remember the name for sure. I will try to find the details.
    Hirtenberger? I've shot that with no issues, but I don't know if mine was "machine gun" ammo. It is non-corrosive, but it's Berdan primed, so no reloading. I save it for my Cetme clone.
     
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    TJ Kackowski

    Let it begin here.
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    133   0   1
    Jun 8, 2012
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    Hendricks County
    Yikes! Sorry about your rifle, and I'm glad nobody was hurt. I think I'd be done with that ammo...not sure I'd even trust that brass to reload. Could be those rounds are overcharged, but it could also be bad metallurgy in the cases. I have some old surplus .303 that we reloaded, and the brass is clearly more brittle than the modern stuff, not sure if that's due to the original metallurgy or just the age/improper storage, but I have to keep a close eye on it and am only using it for light cast bullet loads that I neck size for. The SMLEs also have a nasty habit of stretching brass due to their rear-lugged bolt design, but even with that in mind that old brass just doesn't hold up like new manufacture stuff.

    I had what was almost a case head separation last week in a .30-06. I'm not sure if it was my 03A3 or my Garand...I was shooting them both and didn't find it until I got home, but one of the cases had a crack with some obvious gas seepage about 1/2" up from the base, and it went about 3/4 of the way around the circumference of the case. R-P (Remington) brass. Probably just too many reloads for that one, but I'm glad it held together...would have broken my heart to blow up one of my rifles.

    I hope there's no damage to yours beyond the stock. The CMP makes a nice one, but if you're looking for an original, and trying to keep it affordable, S+S has them for cheap. I saw them the other day when looking for something else and almost bought one just because it seemed like too good a deal to pass up, but ended up talking myself out of it because money is kinda tight at the moment and I don't need to be buying stuff that I don't really need. I have no affiliation with the company, but I've bought from them before and they did right by me: https://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GS177. They also have handguards and other parts if you need them.
    Thanks for the lead on stock and parts.

    My rifle came from the CMP sporting one of their stocks. It was advertised as an HRA Service Grade Special ... all correct and collectible grade metal, but the stock had to be replaced with a CMP stock.

    When I took it to the counter to cash out, the armorer asked if I knew how to strip it down for maintenance. When I told him no, he proceeded to strip it down and showed me everything I needed to know about this rifle. He even rechecked the throat and muzzle erosion with his gauge and said that whoever inspected this rifle was very conservative. The tag said 1+ for both throat and muzzle, but he showed me on his gauge and said that if he was inspecting this rifle, he would have listed it at no more than 1 and very likely 0+.

    Since I brought it home, I've put almost 3,000 rounds of surplus ammo through it. Mostly HXP, some IMI, AMA, and LC. Even ran some newly made Prvi Partisan to test their M1 specific load. Not a single hiccup until this MKE ammo.

    The more I read about the MKE ammo, the more it looks like I bought some very expensive bullets and fertilizer. Maybe there's some value in the scrap brass after I disable the primers.

    Heck, I can't even console myself that back in my youth the cost of this ammo would have been nothing more than a good night's partying because the money I have invested would have been a full three-day weekend of drinking and partying ... those were few and far between.
     

    Leo

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    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
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    Lafayette, IN
    Hirtenberger? I've shot that with no issues, but I don't know if mine was "machine gun" ammo. It is non-corrosive, but it's Berdan primed, so no reloading. I save it for my Cetme clone.
    That name sounds right. I do not remember the specifics. When I was serious in National Match Competition, we had a channel on "shooters.com" that was dedicated to National Match competitions.

    There was State team shooter that posted pictures of a split barrel M1a, and shortly there after, was several more damaged rifles from other places in the country. I could never figure out the idea of driving hours to a match, paying serious entry fees and using surplus combat ammo for a score in a registered match.

    Good to know you are having good luck.
     

    TJ Kackowski

    Let it begin here.
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    133   0   1
    Jun 8, 2012
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    Hendricks County
    Update ... Turkish ammo will soon be traded.

    While I await the call from the CMP to return my H&R rifle for repair, I went ahead and purchased another U.S. Rifle, .30 Cal., M1.

    The new rifle is another CMP rifle; a Springfield with all original parts, including stock. Throat measures 1+ and the muzzle measures 1. The serial number puts this rifle being manufactured in 1957 and the barrel is dated June 1956. This rifle was made right near the end of Springfield's production of M1's.

    Also picked up some newly manufactured Prvi Partizan ammo to run through the newly acquired M1.

    Pictures of the new rifle.

    20220704_083247.jpg 20220704_083343.jpg

    Now to find some time to get this rifle out and sighted in.
     
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