Load for 38 special with a power factory of 155.

[100Xkid]

Hi ALl,
My bubby and I are looking at branching out from shooting Cowboy all the time and I am looking for a load for 38 special with a power factor of 155 so I can shoot USPSA and IDPA with the same ammo. I have a 9mm bottom feeder but i would really like to use my wheel gun.
i am having trouble finding loads to achieve the PF.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks
100X

 

[Jaybird1980]

Hi ALl,
My bubby and I are looking at branching out from shooting Cowboy all the time and I am looking for a load for 38 special with a power factor of 155 so I can shoot USPSA and IDPA with the same ammo. I have a 9mm bottom feeder but i would really like to use my wheel gun.
i am having trouble finding loads to achieve the PF.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks
100X

What powders do you have available and what barrel length. Are you planning on shooting ESR division? SSR would be a lot easier with 38 special, I don't personally know anyone pushing specials to 155.

 

[DadSmith]

Hi ALl,
My bubby and I are looking at branching out from shooting Cowboy all the time and I am looking for a load for 38 special with a power factor of 155 so I can shoot USPSA and IDPA with the same ammo. I have a 9mm bottom feeder but i would really like to use my wheel gun.
i am having trouble finding loads to achieve the PF.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks
100X

3.5gr of Trail Boss 158gr coated Lead SWC 4" barrel.

38 Caliber 158 Grain SWC Hi-Tech coated

Lowest priced Hi-Tek coated lead bullets. When accuracy matters.

hoosierbullets.com

Not knowing your barrel length, primer, etc you'll have to adjust the powder charge. You want the 158gr bullet to be at least 670 fps.

 

[Jaybird1980]

3.5gr of Trail Boss 158gr coated Lead SWC 4" barrel.

38 Caliber 158 Grain SWC Hi-Tech coated

Lowest priced Hi-Tek coated lead bullets. When accuracy matters.

hoosierbullets.com

View attachment 237238

Not knowing your barrel length, primer, etc you'll have to adjust the powder charge. You want the 158gr bullet to be at least 670 fps.

That load will not even come close to 155pf

 

[DadSmith]

That load will not even come close to 155pf

Lol your right I was thinking ft lbs of energy
Now I have to run this through my brain again. Senior moment....

 

[Jaybird1980]

Lol your right I was thinking ft lbs of energy
Now I have to run this through my brain again. Senior moment....

It's just weight time speed.

He would have to average close to 1000 fps to give a buffer.
Most factory +p loads don't make the 155pf

That and he will probably want a RN so that it helps with the reloads.

 

[DadSmith]

It's just weight time speed.

He would have to average close to 1000 fps to give a buffer.
Most factory +p loads don't make the 155pf

That and he will probably want a RN so that it helps with the reloads.

990 fps with a 158gr minimum.
Any 158gr coated will work.

Edit:
Okay 158gr coated Lead bullet of your choice. 7.5"-8" barrel 38 special.
Ramshot Silhouette
5.8gr and that's +P.
19,900 psi.
990-1002fps
If it is a shorter barrel it won't happen unless you load it at +P+ pressure.

I'll see if a lighter bullet can pull it off with +P load.

 

[Jaybird1980]

990 fps with a 158gr minimum.
Any 158gr coated will work.

Yep.

Any coated bullet may work, but a RN is usually desired to aid in the reloading. The sharp corners don't reload as smooth.

 

[DadSmith]

Yep.

Any coated bullet may work, but a RN is usually desired to aid in the reloading. The sharp corners don't reload as smooth.

I mean any 158gr coated bullet shape will work with the loads I'm giving.

 

[VERT]

Sure the OP meant 125 PF. That would make minor for USPSA. Dad is loading 3.6-3.7 grains of Bullseye under a coated 160 grain LRN. It is borderline +P according to the manual and over 125 PF. But he added a little more powder to take down steel.

 

[DadSmith]

Found a +P load that will work depending in barrel length, and its only 17,800 psi. So a little room to play with.

 

[DadSmith]

Here's one that will make 155pf and can be loaded lighter.

 

[sloughfoot]

Hi ALl,
My bubby and I are looking at branching out from shooting Cowboy all the time and I am looking for a load for 38 special with a power factor of 155 so I can shoot USPSA and IDPA with the same ammo. I have a 9mm bottom feeder but i would really like to use my wheel gun.
i am having trouble finding loads to achieve the PF.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks
100X

It can't be done safely for uspsa or idpa in 38 special.

I'm a revolver guy that has shot both games for decades. Only a .357 Magnum gets it done.

 

[DadSmith]

Sure the OP meant 125 PF. That would make minor for USPSA. Dad is loading 3.6-3.7 grains of Bullseye under a coated 160 grain LRN. It is borderline +P according to the manual and over 125 PF. But he added a little more powder to take down steel.

Yeah 125pf would be easy to achieve. I knew the only way a 38 Special could achieve 155pf would have to be a heavy bullet at or close to +P pressure.

 

[t-squared]

IF the OP, or anyone else, is looking to for a nice +P load for 38 Special, I've gotten 1000fps with plated 158gr HP and coated 158gr using 6.0gr of Power Pistol. It's a spunky little load that's fun to shoot out of my GP100.

Alliant load data

 

[VERT]

IF the OP, or anyone else, is looking to for a nice +P load for 38 Special, I've gotten 1000fps with plated 158gr HP and coated 158gr using 6.0gr of Power Pistol. It's a spunky little load that's fun to shoot out of my GP100.

Alliant load data

Something like PowerPistol or Longshot would be the powder you would have to use. You aren’t going to get there with a faster powder.

For gun games 125 PF is what you are looking for.

 

[Bosshoss]

Yeah 125pf would be easy to achieve. I knew the only way a 38 Special could achieve 155pf would have to be a heavy bullet at or close to +P pressure.

125 is NOT easy to achieve. Many loading manuals use test barrels to get their results and real world guns with gaps between the barrel and cylinder and other factors make the data very different from what is published.
Getting 125 pf out of 38 special is usually +P loads unless heavy bullets are used and it is still close to +P with heavy bullets.
I don't care what the manuals say as I use a chronograph to work up loads and if pressure signs start showing or I start getting sticky extraction it is time to change the OAL or a different powder.
OP stated in another thread that he had a 327 S&W and that is a 8 shot gun and that takes IDPA off the table as 8 shot revolvers are not legal there unless you only load 6 rounds(but you can shoot a PCC and that is fine).
There is no point in shooting USPSA with major power factor in a 8 shot gun as it will still be scored minor.
A lot of other factors come into play also as it is very different shooting a box of ammo on the range vs shoot a USPSA or IDPA match where fast shooting and reloading are a huge part of the game. The empties have to eject easily and sticky extraction is a stage killer.
Some Slower powders tend to leave a lot of unburned powder that can and will tie up the gun during a course of fire.
Heavy bullets and faster powders are the mainstay in USPSA and ICORE.
Major PF in either game is primarily 10mm/40 and 45 auto in a 6 shot gun.

One of the things about moonclipped revolvers is the shorter the loaded rounds the easier it is to reload the gun during a course of fire.
Very few shoot full length 38's because of that. 38 Short colt is popular as is long colt and some cut 38 specials down to .900 length which is the same as 38 super. Why use the long colt and super length brass? Because it is easier to make MINOR without the pressures that can make short colt a finicky round.

S&W 929's in 9mm are also not easy to make minor with. Many of my customers think that they can use their 9mm autoloader ammo in the 929 and be fine and that just doesn't work(for a match that requires PF). Just plinking on the range may work out ok.
I would guess on average(from customer feedback) that ammo fired out of a autoloader and then fired out of a 929 will show about 10 pf lower out of the 929. Accuracy out of a 929 is way better with .358 dia. bullets in almost every case.

BTW IIRC I had several friends years ago when I was shooting bowling pins that shot pins with revolvers that used 38 special brass and 200 grain and some 220 grain bullets that I remember them saying was going around 1000 fps. They used 38 brass because the bullets were so long that 357 brass with those bullets were too long to fit in the gun. They used rifle primers and only used the brass one time and threw it away. They never shot those guns anywhere but at pins and never shot those loads for practice and they claimed the guns didn't last long with out some work between seasons. I stuck with 45acp for that task.

 

[DadSmith]

125 is NOT easy to achieve. Many loading manuals use test barrels to get their results and real world guns with gaps between the barrel and cylinder and other factors make the data very different from what is published.
Getting 125 pf out of 38 special is usually +P loads unless heavy bullets are used and it is still close to +P with heavy bullets.
I don't care what the manuals say as I use a chronograph to work up loads and if pressure signs start showing or I start getting sticky extraction it is time to change the OAL or a different powder.
OP stated in another thread that he had a 327 S&W and that is a 8 shot gun and that takes IDPA off the table as 8 shot revolvers are not legal there unless you only load 6 rounds(but you can shoot a PCC and that is fine).
There is no point in shooting USPSA with major power factor in a 8 shot gun as it will still be scored minor.
A lot of other factors come into play also as it is very different shooting a box of ammo on the range vs shoot a USPSA or IDPA match where fast shooting and reloading are a huge part of the game. The empties have to eject easily and sticky extraction is a stage killer.
Some Slower powders tend to leave a lot of unburned powder that can and will tie up the gun during a course of fire.
Heavy bullets and faster powders are the mainstay in USPSA and ICORE.
Major PF in either game is primarily 10mm/40 and 45 auto in a 6 shot gun.

One of the things about moonclipped revolvers is the shorter the loaded rounds the easier it is to reload the gun during a course of fire.
Very few shoot full length 38's because of that. 38 Short colt is popular as is long colt and some cut 38 specials down to .900 length which is the same as 38 super. Why use the long colt and super length brass? Because it is easier to make MINOR without the pressures that can make short colt a finicky round.

S&W 929's in 9mm are also not easy to make minor with. Many of my customers think that they can use their 9mm autoloader ammo in the 929 and be fine and that just doesn't work(for a match that requires PF). Just plinking on the range may work out ok.
I would guess on average(from customer feedback) that ammo fired out of a autoloader and then fired out of a 929 will show about 10 pf lower out of the 929. Accuracy out of a 929 is way better with .358 dia. bullets in almost every case.

BTW IIRC I had several friends years ago when I was shooting bowling pins that shot pins with revolvers that used 38 special brass and 200 grain and some 220 grain bullets that I remember them saying was going around 1000 fps. They used 38 brass because the bullets were so long that 357 brass with those bullets were too long to fit in the gun. They used rifle primers and only used the brass one time and threw it away. They never shot those guns anywhere but at pins and never shot those loads for practice and they claimed the guns didn't last long with out some work between seasons. I stuck with 45acp for that task.

5gr CFE Pistol with a 158gr lead bullet of choice will get you 125pf + in a 4" barrel 38 special under standard 38 special pressures.
I've gotten a little over 800fps in my Ruger LCRx snubnose that meets 125pf.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Something like PowerPistol or Longshot would be the powder you would have to use. You aren’t going to get there with a faster powder.

For gun games 125 PF is what you are looking for.

IDPA doesn't use 125.

They use 105 for SSR or 155 for ESR.

OP mentioned he has a 8 shot which would not be ideal for IDPA, but since he mentioned it in the post maybe he plans on giving it a go anyway.

IMO It doesn't really matter for local matches. Never seen a Chrono at one anyway.

 

[Bosshoss]

5gr CFE Pistol with a 158gr lead bullet of choice will get you 125pf + in a 4" barrel 38 special under standard 38 special pressures.
I've gotten a little over 800fps in my Ruger LCRx snubnose that meets 125pf.

Did you chrono them or just what the book said?
Sticky extraction after 3 or 4 cylinders of rapid fire like a match would be like?
IDPA and ICORE lowered their minimum PF because most factory 38 spl didn't make minor and reloads had issues at minor PF.