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    printcraft

    INGO Clown
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    16   0   0
    Feb 14, 2008
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    Uranus
    Not going to get into a argument with you on that. You're smart enough to exactly what it means, and exactly what response it elicits.


    tenor.gif

    The original premise is a problem.

    images
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,022
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    Martinsville
    You think I haven't talked to JWs? Their HQ has put a big X on my house, "Don't send anyone there!"

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more coercively closed collective than the KKK... yet people have walked away.
    A year or two ago we were talking about #walkaway in the context of liberal democrats.

    There are people open to talking.


    The question to ask yourself is, "am I willing to have an open minded discussion?" Can you listen to a bunch of woke leftist speech without getting overly judgemental?



    Little of that on the conservative side? What happens to people (and politicians) that defy Trump?

    People on INGO accuse me and others, of all sorts of things in order to "unperson" us.
    Politicians get stripped of their committees and silenced.
    Solid Christians get boycotted for supporting the wrong politician.

    What happens when a conservative says "black lives matter"?

    You act as if I'm not open minded to conversation with the left. I've tried for the better part of the last decade and there's just nothing behind their belief systems. It's a bunch of very surface level emotional pleas with nothing more below the surface. Economically I couldn't even get them to comprehend the concept of knock on consequences for various actions as they insisted it didn't matter. And for ****s sake I'm absolutely not a lassie faire type person.

    So have you lost a job because you defied Trump? Have you been disowned by your family, formally, because you defied Trump? Have you been removed from your college because you defied Trump? Have you lost every friend you've ever known because you defied Trump? I'm going to hazard a guess and say no. You just get ribbed because everyone who doesn't HATE Trump is sick and tired of hearing about the surface level complaints regarding Trump when he was actually improving life for a lot of us in very tangible ways.

    And when it comes to religion mixing in politics, can't help you there. There's some pretty harsh boundries that need respected by a politician to deserve the formal support of someone professing a certain belief. If you want to wear your religious beliefs on your sleeves, expect to find arguments.

    As for a conservative supporting BLM? Conservatives are supposed to value individual rights and property rights. If they fail that most basic test for conservatism, then I don't know what to tell you.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,896
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    Columbus, OH
    You think I haven't talked to JWs? Their HQ has put a big X on my house, "Don't send anyone there!"

    You'd be hard pressed to find a more coercively closed collective than the KKK... yet people have walked away.
    A year or two ago we were talking about #walkaway in the context of liberal democrats.

    There are people open to talking.


    The question to ask yourself is, "am I willing to have an open minded discussion?" Can you listen to a bunch of woke leftist speech without getting overly judgemental?

    [No. I can't even stand to listen to people cite NPR as if it was 30 years ago when they weren't so obviously biased]

    Little of that on the conservative side? What happens to people (and politicians) that defy Trump?
    The people, you know - the folks those politicians are supposed to represent - either retire them or other politicians do it for us because they can see the moving finger
    People on INGO accuse me and others, of all sorts of things in order to "unperson" us.
    Politicians get stripped of their committees and silenced.
    Solid Christians get boycotted for supporting the wrong politician.
    [We don't 'seek to unperson you', you drastically overestimate how much we care about you at all. You just seem unable to accept people will cheerfully defend Trump from snipers - you have to see a genuine affection for the man and what he accomplished in terms of worship or a cult because YOU can't accept any other explanation for it. It is your world view that seems like it would be a bit claustrophobic. You unperson yourself, we just are stuck having to bear witness]
    Ahem. Speaking of being castigated for supporting the wrong politician, I just couldn't begin to guess how that might feel, there, kemosabe :rolleyes:

    What happens when a conservative says "black lives matter"?
    They lose all credibility
     

    CampingJosh

    Master
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    18   0   0
    Dec 16, 2010
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    As for a conservative supporting BLM? Conservatives are supposed to value individual rights and property rights. If they fail that most basic test for conservatism, then I don't know what to tell you.
    Do you think that being murdered by agents of government is an infringement of any individual right?
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
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    Gtown-ish
    The problem with that is two people are doing it for show (and money, and power). That's not two people sitting and talking over a delicious Hawaiian pizza.

    Way I see it. Fine have a discussion over Hawaiian pizza. Since I won’t be eating it, I’ll get to donall the talking.


    I would not classify Sam Harris and Ezra Klein as doing it for money and power. I mean. It’s just a podcast. It’s not like bazillions of people listened to it. It was pretty dry because Sam Harris is pretty dry. It was like listening to someone read 30 paragraphs of Lorem Ipsum, except you could understand it, and then the other person replying, “but you’re a racist.”
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,022
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    Martinsville
    Do you think that being murdered by agents of government is an infringement of any individual right?

    Let this stand as an example as to why discourse isn't possible.

    In the leftist brain, they can't comprehend the concept of not liking cities being burned to the ground and innocent people being slaughtered.

    2 wrongs don't make a right. Have you even read the BLM official charter?
     

    KG1

    Forgotten Man
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    66   0   0
    Jan 20, 2009
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    Do you think burning down the business of someone that had absolutely nothing to do with your perceived injustice is an infringement of any individual right?
    No. The "peaceful protestors" have a right to burn and loot ****.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
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    Gtown-ish
    No. The "peaceful protestors" have a right to burn and loot ****.
    Peace credits are given when you’re oppressed as an entire race when a Black man is killed by police, regardless of circumstances. And then you may riot, destroy property, loot, assault innocent people, engage in whatever other non-peaceful activities you care to do, and cash in your peace credits so that you may be counted among peaceful protesters.
     

    CampingJosh

    Master
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    18   0   0
    Dec 16, 2010
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    That’s astonishingly reductive. C’mon man. You can give a reply that represents the reality of both sides better than that.
    As long been my position, I think that both sides have merit: vandalism is bad and unacceptable, and police shouldn't be executing citizens. It's not an issue of "yea, but..." it's an issue of "yes, and..."

    I'm wondering if the "conservatives" on here are willing to admit that there is a problem with instances of law enforcement use of force in this country. Is there any legitimacy to the idea that lives of black people in this country are not valued to the same level as lives of white people?
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,169
    113
    Gtown-ish
    As long been my position, I think that both sides have merit: vandalism is bad and unacceptable, and police shouldn't be executing citizens. It's not an issue of "yea, but..." it's an issue of "yes, and..."

    I'm wondering if the "conservatives" on here are willing to admit that there is a problem with instances of law enforcement use of force in this country. Is there any legitimacy to the idea that lives of black people in this country are not valued to the same level as lives of white people?
    Police execute citizens? Don’t you think that’s hyperbole? In some of the use of force instances I think there was excessive force. I’ve been pretty vocal that I think Chauvin was guilty of manslaughter 2, but not murder. So do you think it was murder? Do you think that it was racially motivated? Or, how about this. List the instances where you think that white cops killed someone who is black, and it was because of race that the person was killed. And the we can talk about that.

    We don’t ever talk about when white people are killed by cops because we assume, probably correctly, that in those instances, race had no bearing on the outcome. Why do we assume (rhetorical “we”) thst when a Black person is shot by a White cop, that the race must have been why? So think about all the instances you cite, and be ready to explain why it happened because of race. I can think of a couple. Most of the high profile cases involved the suspect causing the use of force to escalate. And that was also the case with Floyd.
     

    jbombelli

    ITG Certified
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    10   0   0
    May 17, 2008
    13,010
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    Brownsburg, IN
    As long been my position, I think that both sides have merit: vandalism is bad and unacceptable, and police shouldn't be executing citizens. It's not an issue of "yea, but..." it's an issue of "yes, and..."

    I'm wondering if the "conservatives" on here are willing to admit that there is a problem with instances of law enforcement use of force in this country. Is there any legitimacy to the idea that lives of black people in this country are not valued to the same level as lives of white people?
    lol
     
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