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    drillsgt

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    I probably could have used a more precise label. I guess I could have said Trumpers. But there aren't just two sides regardless. It just says that I don't agree with that one point. You said I used "my side's" definition of "peaceful protest". The people saying that the BLM riots were mostly peaceful aren't "my side". I don't agree that they were peaceful. Burning ****, destroying property, and taking **** that doesn't belong to them is violence, not peace. Disagreeing with you on the one point doesn't place me on that side.
    Trump's gone, disagreeing with you or anything right of Mitt Romney doesn't make someone a Trumper.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Also funny how the videos of police opening the doors for them to enter the building have been omitted. You can’t fart in a Walmart aisle without it being on YouTube, there’s thousands of hours of video that will go unseen. That’s not justice, that’s an agenda.
    Omitted? I saw those the videos too. It is a curious thing not having an explanation other than one's imagination. Imagination seems to follow worldview.

    The explanation I've heard from people on the left is that some of the CP were Trumpers trying to help him stage a coup. Equally imaginative is the explanation I've heard from Trumpers, that it was some kind of false flag operation. Something that may explain it is what I've heard in some of the video where people on the right told CP officers that it would go better for them if they just stand down. And then those officers let the people pass. That kind of thing is in some of the videos. False flag? Coup? Nah. We need better evidence than imagination for either.

    I'm willing to admit I don't know all that happened because I wasn't there in omnipresence. Which means I don't think anyone knows all that happened. Your point on agenda is spot on though. We would have to rely on honest people to piece everything that happened and who is to blame and for what. I don't have any faith that anyone in a position to investigate cares all that much to find out.

    But I do know what I saw from the countless hours of video I watched. I saw actions that ranged from peaceful to rowdy, raucous, and even violent. There had to be hundreds of thousands of people in that general area. Most were not all that violent. But the ones that were violent weren't a small number either. The ones that broke in weren't a small number. The ones that acted more like tourists, I dunno. Hard to gauge that from the few videos that showed them staying inside the ropes during a riot.

    People on the right side need to be able to admit when they got it wrong. Mostly what I see is denial. It WAS at least a riot if not the fulfillment of the dictionary definition of insurrection.
     

    jamil

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    Trump's gone, disagreeing with you or anything right of Mitt Romney doesn't make someone a Trumper.
    Well, hell. I don't know how to address the people I'm referring to. If you're denying/justifying the violence on 1/6, how should I refer to that? Right-wingers doesn't work. I'm mostly on the right side of center on most issues. But I don't agree with justifying 1/6 or denying what it was. Using "Trumpers" doesn't work because he's gone. But, it seems most accurate because the people primarily involved in 1/6 were Trump supporters. I'd say I'm a Trump voter but not so much a supporter.

    I'm not trying to disparage anyone by the label I'm using. I just want a way to refer to the group I'm talking about.
     

    BugI02

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    Jul 4, 2013
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    Well, hell. I don't know how to address the people I'm referring to. If you're denying/justifying the violence on 1/6, how should I refer to that? Right-wingers doesn't work. I'm mostly on the right side of center on most issues. But I don't agree with justifying 1/6 or denying what it was. Using "Trumpers" doesn't work because he's gone. But, it seems most accurate because the people primarily involved in 1/6 were Trump supporters. I'd say I'm a Trump voter but not so much a supporter.

    I'm not trying to disparage anyone by the label I'm using. I just want a way to refer to the group I'm talking about.
    You could always resurrect an old favorite - 'reactionary'
     

    jamil

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    Sorry to interrupt the argument, but this is precious.

    View attachment 150474
    There was a peer reviewed study of participants of BLM "protests" that I saw maybe a month or two ago. The purpose was to access the risk spread of covid outdoors. I don't remember the exact numbers. What I remember, the conclusion was to the effect that the risk isn't very high outdoors at all, even in a large crowd of people standing shoulder to shoulder.

    On 1/6, the large crowd outside was not likely to spread covid. So for the outside part of the BLM riots and the 1/6 riots, I doubt 1/6 was any more of a superspreader kind event than the BLM riots were.

    Except for the people indoors. It could be that a CP spread it to other CP because of close proximity in an enclosed space. And masks wouldn't necessarily help there anyway. Also, the rioters/tourists who were inside may have spread it because they were in a crowd in confined spaces.

    But the obvious thing that the disparate reporting shows, is that they must believe that having a righteous cause protects people from covid. But especially that they really want the right to look bad.
     

    jamil

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    You could always resurrect an old favorite - 'reactionary'

    I know that's in purple, but since you brought it up, Imma soap box that. It's a ******** term used to disparage anyone who is opposes progressive ideas. I consider it akin to claiming "science denier". Sometimes the reluctance to new ideas is reactive.

    But before people start throwing such claims around they need to make the case that 1) the new idea is actually a good one. 2) that the person's reluctance is only related to the novelty of the idea and not the substance.
     

    drillsgt

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    I know that's in purple, but since you brought it up, Imma soap box that. It's a ******** term used to disparage anyone who is opposes progressive ideas. I consider it akin to claiming "science denier". Sometimes the reluctance to new ideas is reactive.

    But before people start throwing such claims around they need to make the case that 1) the new idea is actually a good one. 2) that the person's reluctance is only related to the novelty of the idea and not the substance.
    I suspect the majority of us here except the usual suspects would be described as opposing progressive ideas.
     

    jamil

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    I suspect the majority of us here except the usual suspects would be described as opposing progressive ideas.
    Sure. I oppose most progressive ideas. But my resistance to those ideas isn't because they're progressive. Some progress in a society is needed. The point was that I don't reject those ideas because of their novelty in society. I don't reject them because I think society shouldn't progress at all. I reject them when they're bad ideas.

    Civil rights, at the time, were a progressive idea, back when the default was Jim Crow. I'm pretty much in favor of civil rights. A progressive idea that I utterly reject is wokeness. But it's not because it comes from the left that I reject it. If that were the case, and the only reason I rejected it was because it came from the left, without any other consideration, I suppose they would have a point. I reject it with reason. It is harmful AF to a free society. My rejection of it is not reactionary.
     

    Hatin Since 87

    Bacon Hater
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    Mar 31, 2018
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    The explanation I've heard from people on the left is that some of the CP were Trumpers trying to help him stage a coup. Equally imaginative is the explanation I've heard from Trumpers, that it was some kind of false flag operation. Something that may explain it is what I've heard in some of the video where people on the right told CP officers that it would go better for them if they just stand down. And then those officers let the people pass. That kind of thing is in some of the videos. False flag? Coup? Nah. We need better evidence than imagination for either.
    I don’t believe in coincidences, the fact pelosi turned down extra officers the day before, when she knew damn well it was a high tension moment where millions of people were pissed, then the CP opens the doors and allows them inside... you may think it’s coincidental, or they were told by politicians on the right to stand down... I, however, do not. I believe she turned down the extra security and had CP let them in, so they could do exactly what they are doing and begin to hunt down “trumpers”.
     

    jamil

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    I don’t believe in coincidences, the fact pelosi turned down extra officers the day before, when she knew damn well it was a high tension moment where millions of people were pissed, then the CP opens the doors and allows them inside... you may think it’s coincidental, or they were told by politicians on the right to stand down... I, however, do not. I believe she turned down the extra security and had CP let them in, so they could do exactly what they are doing and begin to hunt down “trumpers”.
    Her reasoning is plausible. It wasn't just her call. The Senate Majority leader also has a piece of that. It was more than just extra security that was turned down. The chief of the CP wanted to ask for NG help. Their stated reasoning was that they did not want the spectacle of a military presence around the capitol that close to inauguration.

    I need more than that to believe this was a false flag. I wouldn't put it past Pelosi. I think she's quite capable of that. That's not the same as having enough to believe it must have been.
     

    Hatin Since 87

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    BigRed

    Banned More Than You
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    Dec 29, 2017
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    1,000 yards out

    Mikey1911

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    Sep 14, 2014
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    Newburgh

    KJQ6945

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    What was so traumatic for CP and DC police that day that is making them commit suicide?

    I am truly curious.
     

    nonobaddog

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 10, 2015
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    Tropical Minnesota
    Police and related jobs have a pretty high suicide rate that has been climbing fast over the last few years. I wouldn't assume these three represent anything unusual unless more information is disclosed.
     
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