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  • Spring1898

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    May 13, 2021
    229
    28
    North of Galveston
    Avgas is not offering any performance benefit to the average homeowner beyond not having ethanol in it.
    If you are a racer, with crazy compression, decking cylinders, porting, and timing wheels, maybe, but even then you have to be pretty extreme. Normal performance mods do not require this.

    All saws are designed to run at 87 Octane (US), unless specifically stated (Don't know any modern ones off the top of my head)

    Any ethanol free gas will do, so if you want Avgas and have the wallet for it, have at it.

    As far as stabilization, drain the tank, and pull it dry, no need to start it. If you are not sure when that is, go ahead and pull the plug and watch until it stops spitting.

    Seasonal storage does not require fogging, so unless you are not using it for years, I wouldn't worry about. Even then I don't worry about it unless you are storing it in a marsh.

    For those that are stuck with ethanol fuel, I have had very good experience with Archoil. There are other products on the market I am sure with similar chemical make up. But I have had zero storage issues, even with ethanol, while using it.
     

    JTClark

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 28, 2022
    36
    18
    America
    Last week, I bought 5 gallons of E-free gas for $4.69/gal in Monrovia. I felt pretty good about myself.

    I put Stabil in any gas I store, with or without ethanol. The posts in this thread suggest that is not necessary for the E0 fuel. We haven't been firewooding as much this year as last, and I don't know that I will get through the 5 gallons in the next year or so.
    The 2cycle oil you mix has stabilizer in it.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    All gases do flow through orifices the same. A carb doesn't flow different octane fuel differently. If the A/F mixture is set correctly for 87 fuel it will be set no matter what octane gas you put in the tank.

    Yes if you modified the engines compression you could need a higher octane. Timing and Porting do not alter the octane needs.


    Simple.

    If you have a higher compression engine that needs higher octane fuel, then running lower octane fuel can lead to pre detonation. Octane is the resistance to the fuel igniting from compression, that is it.
    I will have to argue as to timing changes with Octane ratings change. Porting a 2 cycle moves the power band up/down in the engines RPM range. It also has an effect on compression past the static numbers we get just cycling the reciprocal parts to get static reading. Porting a 4 cycle has no effect here. Only effects flow volume of a giveset of measurements.

    There are a slew of formulas and opinions on this floating around out there. Not casting shadows on yours but this is a deep rabbit hole and fife for serious bench racing. Bring a white board :lmfao:
     

    thelefthand

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 8, 2008
    225
    43
    Should I store it with no gas? Fuel stabilizer?
    Don't ever put stabilizer in ANY fuel. My dad has put it 4 engines. They are the only 4 engines he's ever had to replace. I've put it in 3 engines. They are the only 3 engines I've ever had to replace. Run non ethanol fuel, at least towards the end of your season, and you'll be fine.
     

    thelefthand

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 8, 2008
    225
    43
    Only reason I ever need a saw is to cut up a fallen tree or branch into small enough pieces for me to toss it in my trailer and haul to the burn pile. Bought an MS180 back around 2008, had to replace the carb in its first year and always ran 100LL with Woodland Pro 2 cycle oil after that with no issue.

    Opening up the exhaust louvers a little with a screwdriver really helped the saw run better. Used the saw nearly every week for 5 years. Never had any other issue with it and wore out a pile of chains, a couple bars and a sprocket in the time I used it. Moved to an apartment for a while and needed the space and the money more than the saw and sold it.

    Replaced it with a Husqvarna 435 when I bought a house. After using it quite a bit I think the MS180 maybe (after my modifications) cut a little faster, but the Husqvarna is the nicer saw as far as being a little better built, easier starting and handling for the money.
    How many bars and chains are we talking about here? I've been running the same bar on my 036 since 2010 and it's cut around 50 cord, mostly hickory and oak with a little locust mixed in. I'm probably on my 6th or 7th chain.
     

    thelefthand

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 8, 2008
    225
    43
    Timing is the only adjustment you could make if you are wanting to utilize the higher octane rating. Imo it’s not worth it, it’s a pain to do for not much gain. I run VP 40:1 premix and i noticed more gain from a barkbox and retune than the timing advance.

    This G660 is my Guinea pig, i cranked it up to 13,500 rpm and it cuts like mad with a 28” bar and 8 pin sprocket. Is been dang solid for a chinese clone.
    View attachment 216934
    I've had one for about 3 months now and I've got around 10 gal of mix through it, mostly with a 42" bar running full skip chain. I'd highly recommend the saw so long as you are capable of replacing your own oil pump. It is significantly heavier than the 066/MS660, so I wouldn't recommend it for every day use unless it's on a chainsaw mill. Other than that, it's a strong runner. On mine, I had to replace the oil pump, and the screws that hold the bucking spikes on. I also had the Eclip pop off the end of the drive shaft when I ran it the first time which caused some issues. The Farmertec Eclips are junk. They are not tempered correctly so they bend rather than flex when taking on/off to change rims. They need to be replaced immediately.

    Here's a few picks of the last of the tree that my G660 has been working on. No, the 42" bare doesn't reach all the way through...
     

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    ancjr

    1 Kings 18:17-18 KJV
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Aug 20, 2021
    14,066
    113
    Washington County
    How many bars and chains are we talking about here? I've been running the same bar on my 036 since 2010 and it's cut around 50 cord, mostly hickory and oak with a little locust mixed in. I'm probably on my 6th or 7th chain.

    3 bars and I have no idea how many chains. And I cut no where near that volume of wood. 90% of volume I did cut was acres of brambles, saplings, limbs, trees less than 6" DBH which I'd argue are worse on a saw than cutting clean logs for a given volume.
     

    BE Mike

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Jul 23, 2008
    7,537
    113
    New Albany
    100LL is great fuel. I watched as a Bonanza that had set in a hanger for 8 years brought out, tires aired up, bird nests cleaned out, new battery. They turned the key and it fired up on 8 year old gas.
    Back in the day (I say this a lot lately) 100LL used to have more lead in it than the fuel it replaced. It used to foul up the plugs on a Lycoming 150. I learned to burn off the plugs during run up by leaning out the mixture and running the engine at high rpm's after getting an unsatisfactory mag check. Although there is a good chance that 100LL has been reformulated since then.
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,699
    113
    .
    Back in the day (I say this a lot lately) 100LL used to have more lead in it than the fuel it replaced. It used to foul up the plugs on a Lycoming 150. I learned to burn off the plugs during run up by leaning out the mixture and running the engine at high rpm's after getting an unsatisfactory mag check. Although there is a good chance that 100LL has been reformulated since then.

    I remember people putting an additive in gas for engines of Luscombes, Cubs, T Craft. etc to slow or stop lead fouling. The FBO where I was asked me what it was and how it worked, an examination showed it was tricresylphosphate, an old plasticizer. It's probably just made the lead deposits soft enough to be blown out of the engines.
     

    JTClark

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 28, 2022
    36
    18
    America
    AV gas isn't a performance upgrade.
    I never said it was. I never claimed to be a chain saw expert by any means and I NEVER wanted to know ANYTHING about a chainsaw. I still DON'T but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

    So I go to people who REALLY KNOW. That would be these guys. Most everything I've HAD to learn about chainsaws comes from them, to me, to who ever I'm trying to do a favor. I'm NOT here trying to LEARN about saws or teach or take a class on them. I'm trying to do someone a favor. When I want to learn something about them, I'll go to D&D. It will always be my first recommendation to anyone who asks.

     
    Last edited:

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    I will have to argue as to timing changes with Octane ratings change. Porting a 2 cycle moves the power band up/down in the engines RPM range. It also has an effect on compression past the static numbers we get just cycling the reciprocal parts to get static reading. Porting a 4 cycle has no effect here. Only effects flow volume of a giveset of measurements.

    There are a slew of formulas and opinions on this floating around out there. Not casting shadows on yours but this is a deep rabbit hole and fife for serious bench racing. Bring a white board :lmfao:
    Ok this has gotten way of in the weeds for something so simple.

    BigRed simply changed the fuel in his tank from old pump gas to AV. Does he require timing or porting to do so?
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    Ok this has gotten way of in the weeds for something so simple.

    BigRed simply changed the fuel in his tank from old pump gas to AV. Does he require timing or porting to do so?
    No. But to get full advantage from it those mods would gain power over the 85/87 alcohol crap.
    Know I was not disparaging your comments or opinions. Having spent a lot of time around engine Dyno’s and the learned men that ran them I have seen how this will interact with that and how that will effect this.
    The 2 cycle is an animal into itself but the end results are pretty close.
    No intention to start a fight as should be seen with the bench racing white board giggles.

    You can run the Av with maybe just adjusted air/fuel screws to optimize.
    If you feed a regular Diet of it yes you can see power gains in simple air flow mods and timing.
    Unless you are racing the saw (yes it’s a thing) intake port mods aren’t needed.

    The thing is with increased octane the ability to advance timing and do some jetting become easier to do and the increased power becomes very obvious.

    I forgot to put “Beer” on my bench racing list. And pizza :lmfao:
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    No. But to get full advantage from it those mods would gain power over the 85/87 alcohol crap.
    Know I was not disparaging your comments or opinions. Having spent a lot of time around engine Dyno’s and the learned men that ran them I have seen how this will interact with that and how that will effect this.
    The 2 cycle is an animal into itself but the end results are pretty close.
    No intention to start a fight as should be seen with the bench racing white board giggles.

    You can run the Av with maybe just adjusted air/fuel screws to optimize.
    If you feed a regular Diet of it yes you can see power gains in simple air flow mods and timing.
    Unless you are racing the saw (yes it’s a thing) intake port mods aren’t needed.

    The thing is with increased octane the ability to advance timing and do some jetting become easier to do and the increased power becomes very obvious.

    I forgot to put “Beer” on my bench racing list. And pizza :lmfao:
    Oh man if you want to get beer and pizza and talk engines I'm in.
     

    indyblue

    Guns & Pool Shooter
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Aug 13, 2013
    3,593
    129
    Indy Northside `O=o-
    Gas containing alcohol needs to be a little richer than pure gas. I assume most saws are tuned from the factory for pump gas containing alcohol. Running pure gas means you could run a little leaner.
     
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