Larry Vickers at Lebanon Police Range

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  • SmileDocHill

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    61   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    6,159
    113
    Westfield
    I'm going to take an mre for food, just for the sake of simplicity. I have many and i would be happy to bring more if it helps reduce packing and prep stress for anyone. $5. Pm me if interested and I'll see what menus I have.
     

    nakinate

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    9   0   0
    May 1, 2013
    13,425
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    Noblesville
    There’s a couple of LEOs from Champaign, IL who will be in the class. I shot with them in the Langdon class last weekend. They were both really good pistol shooters and great guys too.
     

    jrm

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    May 22, 2008
    160
    28
    There’s a couple of LEOs from Champaign, IL who will be in the class. I shot with them in the Langdon class last weekend. They were both really good pistol shooters and great guys too.

    If any LEOs/Mil are coming to the class bring a patch and we will staple it to the wall
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,609
    113
    In the country, hopefully.
    Yep, it was a wet one. Good to meet everyone today. Now, just to put the screen name’s with the faces :scratch:
    I’ve tried to do that but I get the impression the old timers want to make it hard to figure out. Just part of the game. I personally think we should be given name tags with our screen name on it, real name optional.
    Hopeful that it will be drier tomorrow.
     

    SmileDocHill

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    61   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    6,159
    113
    Westfield
    Yep, it was a wet one. Good to meet everyone today. Now, just to put the screen name’s with the faces :scratch:

    I was the guy with the AR. Just kidding. Wearing all tan/ khaki, battle belt, fat, white raincoat in afternoon and near the end of the line farthest from the classroom.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    I was the guy with the AR. Just kidding. Wearing all tan/ khaki, battle belt, fat, white raincoat in afternoon and near the end of the line farthest from the classroom.

    When you're describing yourself, even if you consider yourself fat, it doesn't help other people to include that if you don't really make the cut for actually being "fat" (like our friend, Tactically Fat). I am The Self-appointed Expert on All Things Fat, and you, sir, are not sufficiently fat to include in the description. I HAVE SPOKEN!

    I mention this because I was thinking about the fact that you guys got to train with Skinny LAV instead of Chubby LAV, who no longer exists except in photos and video!
     

    efpeter

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 18, 2011
    69
    8
    Well, that EFFIng sucked. Negligent Discharge perpetrator here. I am so pissed at myself!
    I do want to give a quick AAR, mostly to serve as an example for others.

    LAV is making a quick point about something while setting up the second firing line for transition drill. Note that he is making a point, we are not online yet, prepping to fire. I decide, in CLEAR Violation of safety, that I need to load my pistol at that time. That initiated an unfortunate chain of events. Even if I simply chamber a round and holster, I am still violating a safety rule. But, I have a double feed. Now I have to **** with my gun. I pull the mag and re-seat it. Another double. The safety officer tells me to holster. I heard and understood him. However, my brain is used to "drop the hammer and holster". That's not what he said, and he certainly did not ask me to lock and show clear. I am just used to hearing those commands, but this is a different environment and I was given a different command. My fault. I know Larry is downrange, not in my line of sight, but downrange none the less so I cannot point at the berm. I tell myself the safest thing to do is point at the ground before dropping the hammer. No click...bang. Even though I saw an obvious double feed, I must have told myself that those rounds fell out. One of them didn't. One of them went into the ground very close to me.

    1. Every gun is always loaded.
    2. Never muzzle anything you aren't willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off of the trigger.
    4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.


    I feel like #2 saved me from having a much worse day. I shot the ground by my foot, but that is where I was pointing it. I obviously violated #1 & #3, as my gun did have a round loaded and nothing told me to touch the trigger except my own poor decision.

    Anyway, embarrassed a **** & not a great way to get a reputation in INGO.

    Just remember to practice safety. Don't be that guy. Which, in this scenario, is me.....
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
    5,084
    83
    Indy
    Well, that EFFIng sucked. Negligent Discharge perpetrator here. I am so pissed at myself!
    I do want to give a quick AAR, mostly to serve as an example for others.

    LAV is making a quick point about something while setting up the second firing line for transition drill. Note that he is making a point, we are not online yet, prepping to fire. I decide, in CLEAR Violation of safety, that I need to load my pistol at that time. That initiated an unfortunate chain of events. Even if I simply chamber a round and holster, I am still violating a safety rule. But, I have a double feed. Now I have to **** with my gun. I pull the mag and re-seat it. Another double. The safety officer tells me to holster. I heard and understood him. However, my brain is used to "drop the hammer and holster". That's not what he said, and he certainly did not ask me to lock and show clear. I am just used to hearing those commands, but this is a different environment and I was given a different command. My fault. I know Larry is downrange, not in my line of sight, but downrange none the less so I cannot point at the berm. I tell myself the safest thing to do is point at the ground before dropping the hammer. No click...bang. Even though I saw an obvious double feed, I must have told myself that those rounds fell out. One of them didn't. One of them went into the ground very close to me.

    1. Every gun is always loaded.
    2. Never muzzle anything you aren't willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off of the trigger.
    4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.


    I feel like #2 saved me from having a much worse day. I shot the ground by my foot, but that is where I was pointing it. I obviously violated #1 & #3, as my gun did have a round loaded and nothing told me to touch the trigger except my own poor decision.

    Anyway, embarrassed a **** & not a great way to get a reputation in INGO.

    Just remember to practice safety. Don't be that guy. Which, in this scenario, is me.....

    I was at the far right end of the line. We didn't hear what happened. I know if sucked for you but it made the rest of us ultra conscious about not messing with our guns the rest of the day. I only hate you for bringing donuts!

    There wasn't always a clear the weapon and holster command. There were times when we went back to top off mags with hot guns in holsters & hot rifles slung on safe.

    There was one other guy at the far right that put a pistol round into the base of the target somehow. I'm not sure what he was doing. Everyone else had stopped firing & ~10 seconds later, bang.

    My gear functioned perfectly. That made me happy. My DD MK18 hates everything not 77 grain though. Accuracy was horrible. M855 sucked. 55 gr nickle steel sucked, M196 tracer sucked. Urban ERT sling was OK. Magpul sling... eh.
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,609
    113
    In the country, hopefully.
    Well, that EFFIng sucked. Negligent Discharge perpetrator here. I am so pissed at myself!
    I do want to give a quick AAR, mostly to serve as an example for others.

    LAV is making a quick point about something while setting up the second firing line for transition drill. Note that he is making a point, we are not online yet, prepping to fire. I decide, in CLEAR Violation of safety, that I need to load my pistol at that time. That initiated an unfortunate chain of events. Even if I simply chamber a round and holster, I am still violating a safety rule. But, I have a double feed. Now I have to **** with my gun. I pull the mag and re-seat it. Another double. The safety officer tells me to holster. I heard and understood him. However, my brain is used to "drop the hammer and holster". That's not what he said, and he certainly did not ask me to lock and show clear. I am just used to hearing those commands, but this is a different environment and I was given a different command. My fault. I know Larry is downrange, not in my line of sight, but downrange none the less so I cannot point at the berm. I tell myself the safest thing to do is point at the ground before dropping the hammer. No click...bang. Even though I saw an obvious double feed, I must have told myself that those rounds fell out. One of them didn't. One of them went into the ground very close to me.

    1. Every gun is always loaded.
    2. Never muzzle anything you aren't willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off of the trigger.
    4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.


    I feel like #2 saved me from having a much worse day. I shot the ground by my foot, but that is where I was pointing it. I obviously violated #1 & #3, as my gun did have a round loaded and nothing told me to touch the trigger except my own poor decision.

    Anyway, embarrassed a **** & not a great way to get a reputation in INGO.

    Just remember to practice safety. Don't be that guy. Which, in this scenario, is me.....
    Thanks for explaining, another far ender here. The best reputation you can have is to own your mistakes and you have, so kudos for that.
    Many mistakes were made this weekend, yours just happened to have a primer at the end of a firing pin. Many of us were ‘that guy’ maybe to a lesser extent this weekend, but I have a feeling that happens a lot around Larry. Personally that’s what I paid for, to get my butt kicked a few times by one of the best.
    Anyway, sorry it happened but way to own it man.
     

    hammerd13

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 20, 2015
    350
    63
    Hamilton County
    Well, that EFFIng sucked. Negligent Discharge perpetrator here. I am so pissed at myself!
    I do want to give a quick AAR, mostly to serve as an example for others.

    LAV is making a quick point about something while setting up the second firing line for transition drill. Note that he is making a point, we are not online yet, prepping to fire. I decide, in CLEAR Violation of safety, that I need to load my pistol at that time. That initiated an unfortunate chain of events. Even if I simply chamber a round and holster, I am still violating a safety rule. But, I have a double feed. Now I have to **** with my gun. I pull the mag and re-seat it. Another double. The safety officer tells me to holster. I heard and understood him. However, my brain is used to "drop the hammer and holster". That's not what he said, and he certainly did not ask me to lock and show clear. I am just used to hearing those commands, but this is a different environment and I was given a different command. My fault. I know Larry is downrange, not in my line of sight, but downrange none the less so I cannot point at the berm. I tell myself the safest thing to do is point at the ground before dropping the hammer. No click...bang. Even though I saw an obvious double feed, I must have told myself that those rounds fell out. One of them didn't. One of them went into the ground very close to me.

    1. Every gun is always loaded.
    2. Never muzzle anything you aren't willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off of the trigger.
    4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.


    I feel like #2 saved me from having a much worse day. I shot the ground by my foot, but that is where I was pointing it. I obviously violated #1 & #3, as my gun did have a round loaded and nothing told me to touch the trigger except my own poor decision.

    Anyway, embarrassed a **** & not a great way to get a reputation in INGO.

    Just remember to practice safety. Don't be that guy. Which, in this scenario, is me.....

    So glad you and everyone else was okay. It was a learning experience/reminder for everyone and I know it must be hard to be the one directly involved. Feel good knowing that you and the rest of us will be better because of it.

    It was a pleasure to share the line with you and the rest of the shooters this weekend. We covered a lot of ground and I'm just beginning to digest it all. Rock on and thanks for the donuts!!
     
    Last edited:

    Brad69

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 16, 2016
    5,104
    77
    Perry county
    Yeah it happend thank God nobody was injured. Learn from it I have been in the presence of many ND's during my career some of them ended very badly.

    Great class I am sure one of our wordsmiths will do a proper AAR.
    LAV lived up to the reputation IMO He pulled no punches and put out a lot of information. His drills seem to be logical and to the point the use of paper targets made me realize how sloppy I had become shooting steel.
    It was great to train with my INGO friends again.

    I showed up with few things LAV does not care for a EO tech and a single point sling. That's OK !

    I am sure all in attendance will testify to how sexy I looked shooting them!

    On gear
    The SIG MCX I bought for the class turned out to be a turd it shoots 4 inch groups at 50 yards. I had to use my faithful SIG M400 which is a tack driver. I also used my Walther PPX it shoots as good if not better than the Glooks and others twice its price.

    BTW
    I anyone would like to know LAV does not seem to care for the MCX much.

    "That Guy"
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,609
    113
    In the country, hopefully.
    Yeah it happend thank God nobody was injured. Learn from it I have been in the presence of many ND's during my career some of them ended very badly.

    Great class I am sure one of our wordsmiths will do a proper AAR.
    LAV lived up to the reputation IMO He pulled no punches and put out a lot of information. His drills seem to be logical and to the point the use of paper targets made me realize how sloppy I had become shooting steel.
    It was great to train with my INGO friends again.

    I showed up with few things LAV does not care for a EO tech and a single point sling. That's OK !

    I am sure all in attendance will testify to how sexy I looked shooting them!

    On gear
    The SIG MCX I bought for the class turned out to be a turd it shoots 4 inch groups at 50 yards. I had to use my faithful SIG M400 which is a tack driver. I also used my Walther PPX it shoots as good if not better than the Glooks and others twice its price.

    BTW
    I anyone would like to know LAV does not seem to care for the MCX much.

    "That Guy"
    My FN FNX Tac slide is milled for a red dot, I wonder if I can put one of my EOTechs on it. LAV would love that.

    ”Also That Guy”
     

    roadstar

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 10, 2008
    18
    1
    Miami County
    efpeter

    #1 - good on you for owning it. Everyone make mistakes. It’s how you deal with it that counts.

    LAV handled it professionally and so did you.

    I once was DQ’d from a USPSA match for breaking the 180. It was the same deal. I went home and it sucked! But everyone was kind and I owned the mistake.

    I admire your class...and thanks for the donuts!
     

    pierce195

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    54   0   0
    Mar 21, 2008
    797
    28
    New Castle
    I thought I would do a quick AAR on the LAV class from this past weekend.

    To start the range facilities were excellent. There was plenty of room to park vehicles and the class room was very sizable. The facility had a restroom, refrigerator, microwave, and a covered area with tables on the back of the building which was helpfully in keeping extra ammo and equipment dry during the heavy rain.

    The range was well kept with a large enough area to accommodate the 20 plus shooters in the class. The only issue I saw was passed 50 yards; it would have been hard to accommodate many shooters because of the range house location.

    The first day the weather was a bit rainy but we pushed through it and we all got a little wet. My take away from this was, it forced me to shoot in the pouring rain when I would have otherwise avoided it. It was great to see how may carbine and gear performed in very wet weather.

    LAV lived up to what I expected plus more. I enjoyed that he did not waste a lot of time telling stories and we hit the ground running with a safety brief on the range. After the brief we went into confirming zeros and moved into shooting drills. I’m not going into all the drills one by one but will say that LAV was able to explain why he had us performing each specific drill and how it related to improving our operation of a carbine or pistol.

    The other students in the class were overall all very friendly and it was nice to be around others willing to spend a few days working on their shooting skills. I don’t have an exact count but I think we shoot a little less than 500 carbine rounds and less than 200 handgun rounds.

    If you get the opportunity to take one of Mr. Vickers classes, I would strongly recommend it. This was money well spent and I will take away multiple lessons that I can apply to improving my shooting on the range for years to come.
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,688
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    I thought I would do a quick AAR on the LAV class from this past weekend.

    To start the range facilities were excellent. There was plenty of room to park vehicles and the class room was very sizable. The facility had a restroom, refrigerator, microwave, and a covered area with tables on the back of the building which was helpfully in keeping extra ammo and equipment dry during the heavy rain.

    The range was well kept with a large enough area to accommodate the 20 plus shooters in the class. The only issue I saw was passed 50 yards; it would have been hard to accommodate many shooters because of the range house location.

    The first day the weather was a bit rainy but we pushed through it and we all got a little wet. My take away from this was, it forced me to shoot in the pouring rain when I would have otherwise avoided it. It was great to see how may carbine and gear performed in very wet weather.

    LAV lived up to what I expected plus more. I enjoyed that he did not waste a lot of time telling stories and we hit the ground running with a safety brief on the range. After the brief we went into confirming zeros and moved into shooting drills. I’m not going into all the drills one by one but will say that LAV was able to explain why he had us performing each specific drill and how it related to improving our operation of a carbine or pistol.

    The other students in the class were overall all very friendly and it was nice to be around others willing to spend a few days working on their shooting skills. I don’t have an exact count but I think we shoot a little less than 500 carbine rounds and less than 200 handgun rounds.

    If you get the opportunity to take one of Mr. Vickers classes, I would strongly recommend it. This was money well spent and I will take away multiple lessons that I can apply to improving my shooting on the range for years to come.

    That is good to know. That has been one of the bigger complaints I have heard about his classes in the past.
     

    sofrosune

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Dec 16, 2012
    139
    18
    Had a great time shooting with you all. Impressed with the professionalism of LAV and the practicality of the the training. Everything was done with a purpose and reason based on his (vast) experience. The cruddy weather on Saturday made it even better.

    I will also add, this course gave me an even greater appreciation for the Revere's Riders carbine course and what Nigel and crew were able to accomplish under (IMO) more challenging conditions.
     

    brchixwing

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    75   0   0
    Nov 13, 2016
    326
    12
    Indianapolis
    "There was one other guy at the far right that put a pistol round into the base of the target somehow. I'm not sure what he was doing. Everyone else had stopped firing & ~10 seconds later, bang."
    Guilty! When we were checking our rifles for "clicks" after the transition drill by depressing our triggers, I got distracted checking my target and redundantly checked my pistol (forgetting that second it was chambered).
    I was 100% conscious that I was pulling the trigger, nobody was downrange and pistol was pointed safely downrange, but stupidly thought I was demonstrating that it was a dead trigger like we showed on our rifles.

    There wasn't always a clear the weapon and holster command. There were times when we went back to top off mags with hot guns in holsters & hot rifles slung on safe.
    A few times when we were heading back to the staging area, I stayed behind and faced downrange to unload & clear my guns, usually when I was in the first wave & we had no instruction/notice to clear our guns.

    I was at the far right end of the line. We didn't hear what happened. I know if sucked for you but it made the rest of us ultra conscious about not messing with our guns the rest of the day. I only hate you for bringing donuts!

    There wasn't always a clear the weapon and holster command. There were times when we went back to top off mags with hot guns in holsters & hot rifles slung on safe.

    There was one other guy at the far right that put a pistol round into the base of the target somehow. I'm not sure what he was doing. Everyone else had stopped firing & ~10 seconds later, bang.

    My gear functioned perfectly. That made me happy. My DD MK18 hates everything not 77 grain though. Accuracy was horrible. M855 sucked. 55 gr nickle steel sucked, M196 tracer sucked. Urban ERT sling was OK. Magpul sling... eh.
     
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