July 1 Carry Laws

[winchester4440]

Hi everyone!

With the change coming in July, I’m wondering if carrying in a vehicle will be allowed.

My references (which I hope I’m citing correctly) are:

14-16-1-23(a)9

and

14-16-1-23(b)2

I read the above as generally prohibiting carrying hot in a vehicle without an unlimited permit. However, (b)2 seems to me to be an exception once Constitutional Carry becomes law.

Does anyone know?

Also, wonder when the new language will be available in the code.

Thanks!

 

[AndreusMaximus]

First recognize that the section you are citing ONLY applies to off-road vehicles; none of this has to do with driving your car on roads. There's also exceptions for your own property and property you have permission from the owner to be on (14-16-1-23(b)3) so basically it only applies while off-roading on public land.

As I read it it appears that, as you say, everyone not otherwise forbidden from carrying will be covered under section 14-16-1-23(b)2, since now no one will need a license to carry.

So, as of July 1, definite yes on being able to carry a loaded handgun in your car while driving on roads, on your property, or on another person's property if you have their permission to be there, no need for LTCH.

Probably yes on being able to carry a loaded handgun while off-roading on public land, no need for LTCH, but you'll want to verify with whoever will be enforcing that (whether that's your local police, or the DNR, probably depends on where exactly you're talking about carrying at...)

Of course if you have a LTCH, you're covered under 14-16-1-23(b)1, so no need to worry about it either way.

Also, I know you didn't ask about long guns, but since constitutional carry doesn't affect long guns, realize that the law prohibiting carrying loaded long guns while off-roading on public land still applies. Carrying a loaded long gun in your vehicle while on your property or on the road is perfectly legal now, and unaffected on July 1.

Some of this was discussed here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/th...arry-loaded-long-guns-in-our-vehicles.519494/
There are other threads too, but I can't seem to dig them up at the moment.


IANAL, don't do anything based on what I say, verify with your own research, etc, etc...

 

[winchester4440]

First recognize that the section you are citing ONLY applies to off-road vehicles; none of this has to do with driving your car on roads. There's also exceptions for your own property and property you have permission from the owner to be on (14-16-1-23(b)3) so basically it only applies while off-roading on public land.

As I read it it appears that, as you say, everyone not otherwise forbidden from carrying will be covered under section 14-16-1-23(b)2, since now no one will need a license to carry.

So, as of July 1, definite yes on being able to carry a loaded handgun in your car while driving on roads, on your property, or on another person's property if you have their permission to be there, no need for LTCH.

Probably yes on being able to carry a loaded handgun while off-roading on public land, no need for LTCH, but you'll want to verify with whoever will be enforcing that (whether that's your local police, or the DNR, probably depends on where exactly you're talking about carrying at...)

Of course if you have a LTCH, you're covered under 14-16-1-23(b)1, so no need to worry about it either way.

Also, I know you didn't ask about long guns, but since constitutional carry doesn't affect long guns, realize that the law prohibiting carrying loaded long guns while off-roading on public land still applies. Carrying a loaded long gun in your vehicle while on your property or on the road is perfectly legal now, and unaffected on July 1.

Some of this was discussed here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/th...arry-loaded-long-guns-in-our-vehicles.519494/
There are other threads too, but I can't seem to dig them up at the moment.


IANAL, don't do anything based on what I say, verify with your own research, etc, etc...

Thank you, AndreusMaximus!

I hadn't noticed the off-road vehicle part of it.

So, I guess the code I'm interested in is IC 35-47-2-1 (http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2021/ic/titles/035#35-47-2-1).

According to this, we aren't currently able to carry loaded in a vehicle on the roads without a permit unless there's new language in July.

I've tried to do my due diligence in researching this law myself with Google, and such, so I'd appreciate help.

Does anyone know where we might find the new language of the code? I'm assuming, of course, the code I cited is going to change come July 1. Or am I mistaken?

Also, any other thoughts on whether or not the current language regarding the requirement of a permit will change?

Thanks!

 

[actaeon277]

Thank you, AndreusMaximus!

I hadn't noticed the off-road vehicle part of it.

So, I guess the code I'm interested in is IC 35-47-2-1 (http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2021/ic/titles/035#35-47-2-1).

According to this, we aren't currently able to carry loaded in a vehicle on the roads without a permit unless there's new language in July.

I've tried to do my due diligence in researching this law myself with Google, and such, so I'd appreciate help.

Does anyone know where we might find the new language of the code? I'm assuming, of course, the code I cited is going to change come July 1. Or am I mistaken?

Also, any other thoughts on whether or not the current language regarding the requirement of a permit will change?

Thanks!

The link you have, directs to me to an IN GOV page, with no text.
What are you quoting?

Because it's already been discussed in another thread that being in a car has no bearing on if you can carry or not.

 

[actaeon277]

I'll try to find the thread.

 

[actaeon277]

Will constitutional carry let us carry loaded long guns in our vehicles?

As in can a person who’s legally allowed to own a firearm now carry a loaded long gun in their car? We probably don’t know yet?

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[winchester4440]

Thank you, actaeon277. I'll take a look at the thread.

The link I sent opens for me; I don't know why it doesn't for you. The link goes to Indiana Code 35-47-2-1.

 

[winchester4440]

Well, I finally found HB1296.

Apparently, carrying loaded in a vehicle is still prohibited. We can have a firearm in the car but it has to be unloaded and locked in a case.

Sounds curious to me.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Well, I finally found HB1296.

Apparently, carrying loaded in a vehicle is still prohibited. We can have a firearm in the car but it has to be unloaded and locked in a case.

Sounds curious to me.

Incorrect, unless I'm mistaken.

Pull up HB 1296: https://legiscan.com/IN/text/HB1296/id/2542809

Use your browser's find feature to search for "35-47-2-1". Instance 7/12 of this phrase is the section you're looking for; it amends Indiana Code 35-47-2-1 to allow carry on one's person and in a vehicle without the need for a license:

SECTION 8. IC 35-47-2-1, AS AMENDED BY P.L.221-2017,
SECTION 1,IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE
JULY 1, 2022]: Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and
(c) and sections 2 through 2.1 of this chapter, a person shall not carry
a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without
being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun. A person who
meets the following requirements may carry a handgun in the
manner described in subsection (b):
(1) The person is not prohibited from possessing or carrying
a handgun under federal law as in effect on January 1, 2022.
(2) Notwithstanding section 1.5 of this chapter, the person is
not otherwise prohibited under state law from possessing or
carrying a handgun.
(3) The person does not meet the requirements under
IC 35-47-2

Again, IANAL, don't do anything based on what I say, verify with your own research, etc, etc...

 

[KellyinAvon]

Well, I finally found HB1296.

Apparently, carrying loaded in a vehicle is still prohibited. We can have a firearm in the car but it has to be unloaded and locked in a case.

Sounds curious to me.

There has been a lot of confusion concerning this. The ATV part of Indiana Code keeps rearing it's head.

Also depending on what you are looking at it can appear HB 1296 did things it did not. This gets particularly confusing when looking at bills that are 20-30 pages long and a lot of the current Indiana Code in the bill isn't changing, just has to be there.

There is verbiage that addresses a different situation, such as for an alcohol/drug abuser who has not lost their right to possess firearms, but can't carry under Constitutional Carry (ConC.) It's important to scroll up to the chapter level (35-47-2 for example) to get the context.

Below is the thread from the past legislative session. INGO was very active in the push for ConC.

2022 Legislative Session Thread

Maybe a bit early for this, but I’ll start it anyway. Maybe some of them read INGO and are looking for ideas for their Christmas lists for the citizens. I’ll start that thread in a moment, but this one will be for stuff that’s actually happening in the legislature. Blessings, Bill

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[winchester4440]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the notion that we can defend ourselves in an occupied vehicle but we aren’t allowed to carry a firearm loaded in that vehicle. It clearly states in IC 35-47-2-1 that a firearm in a vehicle has to be unloaded, not readily accessible and locked in a case. Makes no sense to me.

 

[ditcherman]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the notion that we can defend ourselves in an occupied vehicle but we aren’t allowed to carry a firearm loaded in that vehicle. It clearly states in IC 35-47-2-1 that a firearm in a vehicle has to be unloaded, not readily accessible and locked in a case. Makes no sense to me.

Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-47-2-1 | FindLaw

Indiana Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure Section 35-47-2-1. Read the code on FindLaw

codes.findlaw.com

There’s the handy dandy link to what you referenced.

Is this new? I think it’s old.
I’m not good at reading this kind of thing, but I think it has to do with the ‘excepts’, along with taking it in its whole context. I mean, obviously, we can carry in our vehicles. And if that would have changed we would know it, this is INGO.
And the great thing about INGO is that someone that can read law will be along shortly to explain it.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the notion that we can defend ourselves in an occupied vehicle but we aren’t allowed to carry a firearm loaded in that vehicle. It clearly states in IC 35-47-2-1 that a firearm in a vehicle has to be unloaded, not readily accessible and locked in a case. Makes no sense to me.

First, IC 35-47-2-1 is going to be amended, as of July 1, by the new Constitutional Carry law, so certain things said there will change come Friday.

Second, section you reference in IC 35-47-2-1 about the firearm needing to be unloaded and locked up, only applies to unlicensed people. If you have a LTCH you may carry your loaded handgun in your vehicle.

IANAL, verify with your own research, don't do anything based on what I say, etc, etc

 

[KellyinAvon]

@winchester4440 Indiana Code can be incredibly confusing. It's important to scroll up and make sure what the chapter and verse is specifically addressing.

The best way I can explain it: if you meet all the criteria to receive an Indiana LTCH on 1 July, you can carry without a license.

There are a few things that would make you ineligible for license-less carry which would also suspend your LTCH. IIRC two misdemeanor alcohol related convictions in five years, two drug related misdemeanor convictions in three years. These do not rise to the level of prohibited possessor of firearms.

Today If you are not a prohibited possessor and do not have a LTCH, unloaded/in trunk transport is the law.

Hopefully Guy will address this at 1700 on 93.1 WIBC

 

[winchester4440]

@winchester4440 Indiana Code can be incredibly confusing. It's important to scroll up and make sure what the chapter and verse is specifically addressing.

The best way I can explain it: if you meet all the criteria to receive an Indiana LTCH on 1 July, you can carry without a license.

There are a few things that would make you ineligible for license-less carry which would also suspend your LTCH. IIRC two misdemeanor alcohol related convictions in five years, two drug related misdemeanor convictions in three years. These do not rise to the level of prohibited possessor of firearms.

Today If you are not a prohibited possessor and do not have a LTCH, unloaded/in trunk transport is the law.

Hopefully Guy will address this at 1700 on 93.1 WIBC

I’m not a prohibited person as far as what’s listed. I did of course fill out the ATF form when I purchased.

Since the language in the HB of unloaded/in trunk was not struck out, doesn't it mean that that language will still be applicable? IOW, ConC won’t allow it w/o license. Yet we’re supposed to be able to defend ourselves in an occupied vehicle.

I don’t know if I can get Guy’s broadcast; I’m in Evansville. Where would I pick it up?

 

[KellyinAvon]

I’m not a prohibited person as far as what’s listed. I did of course fill out the ATF form when I purchased.

Since the language in the HB of unloaded/in trunk was not struck out, doesn't it mean that that language will still be applicable? IOW, ConC won’t allow it w/o license. Yet we’re supposed to be able to defend ourselves in an occupied vehicle.

I don’t know if I can get Guy’s broadcast; I’m in Evansville. Where would I pick it up?

Go to https://www.wibc.com/ and click the listen icon at the bottom.

If you call in tell Guy KellyinAvon sent you!!

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I’m not a prohibited person as far as what’s listed. I did of course fill out the ATF form when I purchased.

Since the language in the HB of unloaded/in trunk was not struck out, doesn't it mean that that language will still be applicable? IOW, ConC won’t allow it w/o license. Yet we’re supposed to be able to defend ourselves in an occupied vehicle.

I don’t know if I can get Guy’s broadcast; I’m in Evansville. Where would I pick it up?

HB 1296 amended IC 35-47-2-1 so that the language of unloaded/locked now has a new application. Whereas before this language was a requirement for anyone who did not possess LTCH, now it is changed so that this language applies to anyone who is not prohibited from owning a handgun, but still falls under one of the categories defined in the new section created by HB 1296, IC 35-47-2-1.5.

Here is the text of HB 1296: http://iga.in.gov/static-documents/2/1/f/4/21f4b4d7/HB1296.04.ENRS.pdf

See page 18 for the new section IC 35-47-2-1.5; if any of this applies to you, then even if you are not prohibited from owning a handgun, you are still required to follow IC 35-47-2-1, or, in other words, you must still act as if constitutional carry isn't in effect, and you don't have a LTCH.

Again, I am not a lawyer, seriously, please take everything I said above with a grain of salt; I tried my best to simplify and explain in layman's terms so the above may not be a strictly accurate description, and you really do need to verify with you own research, or check with someone who knows the law better if you have any doubts whatsoever. Don't do anything based on what I say, etc, etc.

 

[Trapper Jim]

@winchester4440 Indiana Code can be incredibly confusing. It's important to scroll up and make sure what the chapter and verse is specifically addressing.

The best way I can explain it: if you meet all the criteria to receive an Indiana LTCH on 1 July, you can carry without a license.

There are a few things that would make you ineligible for license-less carry which would also suspend your LTCH. IIRC two misdemeanor alcohol related convictions in five years, two drug related misdemeanor convictions in three years. These do not rise to the level of prohibited possessor of firearms.

Today If you are not a prohibited possessor and do not have a LTCH, unloaded/in trunk transport is the law.

Hopefully Guy will address this at 1700 on 93.1 WIBC

Confusing nails it. Am I seeing that they have added more conditions to “proper person” starting July 1?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Confusing nails it. Am I seeing that they have added more conditions to “proper person” starting July 1?

"Carry a handgun without a license" is a higher bar than "possess firearms". From what I can remember the criteria to receive a LTCH matches the "lawfully carry a handgun without a LTCH" starting tomorrow.

IIRC two misdemeanor alcohol-related convictions in three years would suspend handgun carry under ConC and suspend a LTCH. This individual would still be able to legally possess firearms, could transport unloaded/ammo in different area like today (THE LAST DAY!! IT'S ConC EVE INGO!!!!) without a LTCH.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Happy ConC Eve INGO!!! Everybody take a picture of their streets tomorrow and caption it "no blood running in the streets Doug/Liz/antis too numerous to name!!"

Make sure you have your ConC Day decorations up!