Italian Garands?

[indyjohn]

Browsing my PSA email flyers, I came across this. If I was in the position to blow that kind of money I would do it right now.

https://palmettostatearmory.com//italian-breda-m1-garand-with-m84-scope-and-crate-very-good-surplus-condition-bredam1s.html

 

[Leadeye]

I think Paragon sales was peddling something like this back in the 80s calling them "tanker garands". No scope and they used a modified en bloc clip for the 7.62. Remember seeing them at gun shows.

 

[indyjohn]

Except for the crate, this looks just like the one I owned that came out of the CMP in 1996.

 

[Colt556]

Looks like a reproduction of an M1D but it’s hard to tell on my phone. Probably a decent shooter but seems a bit salty to me.

 

[RaoulHayduke]

Breda made them postwar using Winchester's tooling.

 

[djeinpoco]

I think Paragon sales was peddling something like this back in the 80s calling them "tanker garands". No scope and they used a modified en bloc clip for the 7.62. Remember seeing them at gun shows.

How and why did they modify the clip? .308 Garands don't need the clips modified, unless you mean a clip modified to not eject. I've seen those on scoped Garanads that block the clip from ejecting. The only one I've seen like that was modified to not eject, and only accepted seven rounds. Makes them into a seven round top loader.

I've rebarrelled three .308 Win M1s. There is no need for modification to the clips, nor do you need a spacer block. Screw in a new barrel, finish ream and you are good to go onto to stock fitment and tuning.

If you put a 30-06 loaded clip into a .308 M1 the bolt will stop 1/4 inch from going into battery. In theory it will not work. M1s gotta be in battery for the firing pin to rotate into place to reach the primer.

Conversely, if you put a .308 loaded clip in a .30-06 it can be made to fire. What happenes is the bullet is far enough in the chamber for the bullet to fire without incident. Probably wears out the throat, but they do fire. Empty cases look like 45-70s with the neck blown out creating a straigh wall case. Not something I've done, but have seen pictures on web posts.

 

[Leadeye]

How and why did they modify the clip? .308 Garands don't need the clips modified, unless you mean a clip modified to not eject. I've seen those on scoped Garanads that block the clip from ejecting. The only one I've seen like that was modified to not eject, and only accepted seven rounds. Makes them into a seven round top loader.

I've rebarrelled three .308 Win M1s. There is no need for modification to the clips, nor do you need a spacer block. Screw in a new barrel, finish ream and you are good to go onto to stock fitment and tuning.

If you put a 30-06 loaded clip into a .308 M1 the bolt will stop 1/4 from going into battery. In theory it will not work. M1s gotta be in battery for the firing pin to rotate into place to reach the primer.

Conversely, if you put a .308 loaded clip in a .30-06 it can be made to fire. What happenes is the bullet is far enough in the chamber for the bullet to fire without incident. Probably wears out the throat, but they do fire. Empty cases look like 45-70s with the neck blown out creating a straigh wall case. Not something I've done, but have seen pictures on web posts.

I never owned one of the guns, I just remember the people selling clips to go with them at shows. Only have one gun firing 7.62, an M1A from 1981.

 

[djeinpoco]

As a recovering M1 impulse buyer I've seen and heard some much bullhocky it made me love my '03s a little more each time. My .308 M1s will be migrating towards the front of the safe as 7.62x51 replaces .30-06 as the surplus ammo of the future.

I try and steer new M1 buyers to consider .308 over .30-06 for access to affordable ammo. Most won't though, as they want an orignal rifle. The CMP had the very affordale CMP Specials in .308. They were sold out the last two visits I made to Annisrton. For those into shooting more than collecting, .308 M1s are the way to go.

 

[Colt556]

As a recovering M1 impulse buyer I've seen and heard some much bullhocky it made me love my '03s a little more each time. My .308 M1s will be migrating towards the front of the safe as 7.62x51 replaces .30-06 as the surplus ammo of the future.

I try and steer new M1 buyers to consider .308 over .30-06 for access to affordable ammo. Most won't though, as they want an orignal rifle. The CMP had the very affordale CMP Specials in .308. They were sold out the last two visits I made to Annisrton. For those into shooting more than collecting, .308 M1s are the way to go.

Do you work on M1s for people?

 

[jinks]

I believe the Tipo Garands have 30 06 barrels that were shortened 1/2" and rechambered to 7.62x51. This required the op rod and stock to be shortened. New shortened stocks are usually marked MT and the op rods are marked Tipo 2. The heel of the receivers were scrubbed, but often some of the original markings are visible.

Jim Tompson covers Italian Garands in his latest book.

Here is some information he posted on CMP.

Italian Garands - CMP Forums

Please post your questions and comments regarding CMP Garand Sales here!

forums.thecmp.org

Of course, No "Tipo 2" was in a "first issue" configuration--they were ALL rebuilt to the shorter configuration. There were other 7.62x51 rifles, of course, including brand news ones under contact from other countries. Most "Tipo 2" rifles seem to have gotten new butt stocks in the short configuration, but bear in mind: Those rifles entered service AFTER the BM.59, so there wouldn't have been a lot of real solid U.S.G.I. wood remaining. The type 2 7.62x51 NATO rifle was not the only such M1 Garand rifle produced in that caliber in Italy. They were very late in the rifle's service life, almost entirely after 1961. Some of those rebuilt rifles carried reconfigured wood, but most were new production.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm more into 30-06 chambered army stuff, just for the historical aspect, althought they are fired on occasion.

 

[djeinpoco]

Do you work on M1s for people?

Our litigous society scares the crap outta me working on other's guns. That said I have, and will occaisonally, help others.

I have rebarrelling tools-vises, wrenches, reamers, and chamber guages. I even have a set-up to use a trailer hitch insert to hold the barrel vise when removing a stuck barrel. Removing milsurp barrels that have been galvanically corroded togheter for a century can be a real problem. They can break the weapons and even pull apart workbenches the vises are bolted to while trying to remove old barrels.

That said, what do you need?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Looks like a reproduction of an M1D but it’s hard to tell on my phone. Probably a decent shooter but seems a bit salty to me.

$3,999.99? I would say they need to lay off of the blow!

 

[indyjohn]

Looks like a reproduction of an M1D but it’s hard to tell on my phone. Probably a decent shooter but seems a bit salty to me.

$3,999.99? I would say they need to lay off of the blow!

Being a long time fanboy of the M1D, the price is not over the top. Even in a pre-pandemic world that price would be reasonable IMO considering the historic provenance of the entire package. The box alone is very rare.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Being a long time fanboy of the M1D, the price is not over the top. Even in a pre-pandemic world that price would be reasonable IMO considering the historic provenance of the entire package. The box alone is very rare.

If it were a genuine M1D.

 

[76Too]

This is no reproduction, but an original rifle produced by Italian Garand maker Breda. Their rifles and components (all manufactured post WWII) are arguably the best ever made and are highly sought after by both shooters and collectors.

You’ll still see a lot of their parts in circulation on M1’s coming from the CMP (marked PB).

 

[76Too]

If it were a genuine M1D.

But it IS, though.

Not genuine USGI, but genuine Breda.

 

[Colt556]

But it IS, though.

Not genuine USGI, but genuine Breda.

Is that an original scope and mount? I know the rifle is but there are reproduction scopes and mounts floating around. If they are original the price isn’t to bad since a USGI M1D can run 5-7k

 

[Mongo59]

$3,999.99? I would say they need to lay off of the blow!

Compare it in price to the Italian BM59 and it is cheap...

 

[Mongo59]

Oh, and an en-block clip is an en-block clip is an en-block clip...