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Isreal Under Attack
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so since most here has no problem on with an ethnic group buying up a large area, businesses, land and all in order to make a almost entirely pure area of their own ethnicity.
how do you feel about the Muslim communities forming in places like Michigan? Hamtramck is majority Muslim and now they have become a strong enough ethnic group that they are calling to disband the all white police force.
Muslims have become the majority and are now going after control of the power structure. In another 20 years non Muslims will at best feel not welcome in the town, at worst they will be unofficially blocked from buying property, getting a job in a Muslim owned business.
in 100 years they will most likely control the county power structures and be on their way to pushing their agenda on the entire state. Muslim American birth rate is 2.4 where the average birth rate of Americans is 1.7. If this trend continues then they will out populate native michiganders plan and simple.
I ask you, how is this any different than what the Zionists have done in Israel? How can one support Zionism but not the Muslims in Michigan?
www.modeldmedia.com
how do you feel about the Muslim communities forming in places like Michigan? Hamtramck is majority Muslim and now they have become a strong enough ethnic group that they are calling to disband the all white police force.
Muslims have become the majority and are now going after control of the power structure. In another 20 years non Muslims will at best feel not welcome in the town, at worst they will be unofficially blocked from buying property, getting a job in a Muslim owned business.
in 100 years they will most likely control the county power structures and be on their way to pushing their agenda on the entire state. Muslim American birth rate is 2.4 where the average birth rate of Americans is 1.7. If this trend continues then they will out populate native michiganders plan and simple.
I ask you, how is this any different than what the Zionists have done in Israel? How can one support Zionism but not the Muslims in Michigan?
OPINION: Hamtramck does not need a police department
www.modeldmedia.com
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so since most here has no problem on with an ethnic group buying up a large area, businesses, land and all in order to make a almost entirely pure area of their own ethnicity.
how do you feel about the Muslim communities forming in places like Michigan? Hamtramck is majority Muslim and now they have become a strong enough ethnic group that they are calling to disband the all white police force.
Muslims have become the majority and are now going after control of the power structure. In another 20 years non Muslims will at best feel not welcome in the town, at worst they will be unofficially blocked from buying property, getting a job in a Muslim owned business.
in 100 years they will most likely control the county power structures and be on their way to pushing their agenda on the entire state. Muslim American birth rate is 2.4 where the average birth rate of Americans is 1.7. If this trend continues then they will out populate native michiganders plan and simple.
I ask you, how is this any different than what the Zionists have done in Israel? How can one support Zionism but not the Muslims in Michigan?
OPINION: Hamtramck does not need a police department
Because the Bible doesn’t say Islam is God’s chosen people. There isn’t really any other reason.
so since most here has no problem on with an ethnic group buying up a large area, businesses, land and all in order to make a almost entirely pure area of their own ethnicity.
how do you feel about the Muslim communities forming in places like Michigan? Hamtramck is majority Muslim and now they have become a strong enough ethnic group that they are calling to disband the all white police force.
Muslims have become the majority and are now going after control of the power structure. In another 20 years non Muslims will at best feel not welcome in the town, at worst they will be unofficially blocked from buying property, getting a job in a Muslim owned business.
in 100 years they will most likely control the county power structures and be on their way to pushing their agenda on the entire state. Muslim American birth rate is 2.4 where the average birth rate of Americans is 1.7. If this trend continues then they will out populate native michiganders plan and simple.
I ask you, how is this any different than what the Zionists have done in Israel? How can one support Zionism but not the Muslims in Michigan?
OPINION: Hamtramck does not need a police department
Because the Shia and Sunni Muslims want to kill or enslave any nonbelievers its at their core values its in their Holy Quran. They want to conquer the world and force Islam on everyone. There is a huge difference between a Muslim and a Jew who wants a piece of land to live on. I don't see Zionists trying to conquer anything but what use to be Israel. Nor do they force their religion on people like Muslims do.
Yes I've read the Quran and yes it's in there. Those Muslims like Iran and ISIS are just following their Holy Quran.
That said I have met a sect of Muslims that say the modern version of the Quran is corrupt and things were rewrote to what the main Quran is today. They say the original Quran is about peace and not killing the entire world or enslaving nonbelievers. In fact they have no problems with people who follow the prophet Isa who is Jesus. They just do not believe he is the Christ or the son of God.
These Muslims are a very small group and are often persecuted by the two main groups Shia and Sunni.
The territory of "palestine" (so named by the romans to erase any memory of us) was always a sparsely populated backwater of different empires. There never was a nation of "palestine" and the "palestinians" were arabs--or Jews--who happened to live there...and who called themselves Moslems, Christians, or Jews.
The "peace" Jews (and Christians) lived in under islam preWW1 as "dhimmis", was similar to blacks living under jim-crow or apartheid in south africa.
The return-to-Zion started in earnest in the 1st 1/2 of the 19th century. By the 2nd 1/2 of the 19th century Jerusalem once again had a Jewish majority and Tel Aviv already had over 20K residents by WW1. We didn't just show up on the backs of the british and take over.
Likewise, there was a large arab immigration that took place during the 19th and 20th centuries too. Most of the "palestinians" were migrants looking for work. The narrative that we came and displaced them is false.
Much of the land Jews bought was deemed unarable and never inhabited by arabs--swamps in the huleh valley for example, that jews drained and farmed.
As for "taking over by force"--to the extent that happened--it was a direct result of the arabs (locals and arab nations alike) refusing to accept Jews having independence per the UN partition plan that would have established yet another arab state too.
As for displacing people, there wouldn't have been any refugees if it weren't for the arab's attempt at genocide and "ethnic cleansing". While there was combat in acco, haifa, yaffo, Jerusalem, and lod, those arab communities are still there. On the other hand, the jordanians made the "west bank of the hashemite kingdom of transjordan--by right of conquest" "juden rein", killing or expelling all the Jews there; destroying all the synagogues; desecrating cemetaries; and didn't even allow israel to collect the remains of the people masscred in Gush Etzion for burial.
The conflict isn't about land and independence for arabs, it's about destroying Israel to deny those things to Jews for the sake of moslem supremacy.
"palestinians" got screwed? OK, but it was by themselves for refusing to coexist, and by the arab nations refusing to allow refugees to rebuild their lives--often in countries their grandparents or parents came from--in order to use them as political pawns so that the conflict would remain unresolved.
Mark Twain described the country as desolate, and mentioned traveling THREE days without meeting anyone on the way--not "full of palestinians".
The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931
In deep antiquity, particularly in Egypt, the early civilization where the arts were most strongly developed, the visualization was aspective: that is the artist, working in paint or low-relief sculpture, conveyed to his two-dimensional surface not so
Most Christian Zionists are religious Zionists but the creation of the state of Israel was due to political Zionism.
The type of Zionism which created the modern state of Israel is inherently a political philosophy, not a religious one, and that philosophy is now called "Political Zionism"... Theodor Herzl himself wasn't a religious Jew -- his conception of a Zionist state (a Jewish homeland) was ENTIRELY political in inspiration and in nature.
I think this matters because in this thread we got some speaking politically/historically and others speaking religiously. About as enlightening as a conversation between a Palestinian with no understanding of Hebrew, and an Israeli with no understanding of Arabic.
I think if we could keep the arguments more historically/politically-based and less religiously-based it would be more productive.
Nationalism as a movement started in America in 1776, jumped to France in for their revolution and then kinda just simmered until the other empires died off. It’s got going again full steam in Europe post WW1 and the Zionists came from Europe with this understanding of nationalism and having a national institution in a way that the Arabs wouldn’t get until around the revolt of 1936.
to say that the Palestinians didn’t have a state or a nation prior to Zionism’s takeover of the land is both true but intellectually dishonest. Of course they didn’t have a nation or state, they were illiterate farmers. National institutions had not spread to that part of the world yet, hence why the League of Nations decided that the Arabs couldn’t rule over themselves and needed a mandate government.
Zionists declared for the intent of building a Jewish state in the first Zionist Congress in 1897 and started making moves to that end. The Balfour declaration didn’t happen in a spontaneously it happened because of a concerted effort on the part of a group of influential and wealthy people sympathetic to the Zionist cause.
They're lying. Their evil book has always preached to kill Jews and Infidels wherever they find them. And to lie, or do anything else necessary to further their cause; to dominate the world.
so since most here has no problem on with an ethnic group buying up a large area, businesses, land and all in order to make a almost entirely pure area of their own ethnicity.
how do you feel about the Muslim communities forming in places like Michigan? Hamtramck is majority Muslim and now they have become a strong enough ethnic group that they are calling to disband the all white police force.
Muslims have become the majority and are now going after control of the power structure. In another 20 years non Muslims will at best feel not welcome in the town, at worst they will be unofficially blocked from buying property, getting a job in a Muslim owned business.
in 100 years they will most likely control the county power structures and be on their way to pushing their agenda on the entire state. Muslim American birth rate is 2.4 where the average birth rate of Americans is 1.7. If this trend continues then they will out populate native michiganders plan and simple.
I ask you, how is this any different than what the Zionists have done in Israel? How can one support Zionism but not the Muslims in Michigan?
OPINION: Hamtramck does not need a police department
Compare apples to apples-then maybe we can talk.
I'm sorry. For the longest time I considered myself a strong of Israel, however, as I have become more familiar with the matter. I no longer am. I can't justify the stealing of people's land. We are constantly told by the media the following:
1) Israel is only defending itself from rockets.
2) The Palestinians are muslims (and I guess that's somehow ok to beat them down)
3) The Palestinians never did anything with the land and aren't doing anything with it now, and therefor, it's ok to take their land (not sure how that's ethical either).
Here's the truth:
1) Israel is not defending itself. Those rockets might as well be called bottle rockets. 1/3 of them actually land in Gaza. Also, the Palestinians did that in response to Israeli settlers forcibly moving people off their land, which is actually a war crime under the Geneva Convention (ironically, created in response to the Nazis who used to forcibly relocate so many Slavic, Jewish, and other people off their land). That youtube video I added is one of the main reasons Palestinians started rioting because it spread on social media over there. The funny thing is. So many of us on this forum are probably believers in Stand your ground and Castle Doctrine. What would you do if someone came into your house and asked you to get out? Would you respond peacefully? Or would you fight?
2) Nobody talks about the sizable Palestinian Christian minority that has been kicked off their land and are still being kicked off their land in Palestine. I don't think people realize how many Arab Christians live in that area. They have sizable Christian populations in that area and I believe form a majority in Lebanon.
3) Palestinians were farmers. Many of the farms that are in Israel and the occupied territories, were cultivated by Palestinian farmers over thousands of years. The reason why so many Palestinians farmers are unable to produce food efficiently today is because Israel controls the Jordan River, the main source of agriculture water.
Want to build a house or remodel one as a Palestinian? Good luck! You need a permit and Israel rarely hands them out to them. Need electricity to run a factory as a Palestinian? Good luck! Israel limits how much electricity the Palestinians can get. Need medicine for your dying wife in Gaza? Israel limits that too. What about protein for your diet? Palestinians rely on fish for protein, especially in the Gaza strip. Yet Palestinians in the Gaza strip can only fish up to five miles away from the coast. My friend who is white South African said to me that he didn't even think that South African Apartheid was this bad... when people say it's "An open air prison" I think that's putting it mildly.
To be clear, I don't think most of the people have bad intentions when saying they support what Israel is doing on this post. I just think that so many people do not have the proper context of what is actually happening, because if they did they would condemn it as well.
Couple things here. One thank you for pointing out this to us. I’ve been reading his book “innocents abroad” for the last several hours and it’s both a riveting story and a wonderful historical chronicle. PDF linked below.
2. I couldn’t find the part where he said they didn’t find anyone for three days. I keyword searched, and read the entirety of his actual time in the Middle East ( which makes up a very small part of the book).
3. WhAt I did read were lots of things to the effect of the pilgrims were both armed and had hired guards for the possibility of bedouin hostile encounters.
3. When a man who has not really traveled outside of the Mississippi rice area goes to the Middle East I would expect him to describe it as “desolate”. Nothing that I know of can match the fertile ground of the American Midwest.
4.what I could find on agriculture in the area was from 1909 and is detailed here page 14. Cliff notes is 600,000 head of livestock in 1909.
the British wouldn’t have stationed troops in a desolate uninhabited place. This is one of the things that struck me most originally. If the British put troops here and devoted resources then they were getting something out of it
Speaking as an orthodox Jew, religious zionism is also political zionism in that it involves Jews as a people with a national identity ruling ourselves in our homeland; promised by God to our ancestors.
Non religious Jews understand this too even if they're not solid with God making covenants with our ancestors. Ben-Gurion, speaking at an international convention (San Remo, maybe?), held up a bible and said "this is our title to the land".
I'll follow up on that quote.
*Bedouin banditry doesn't mean they're literally everywhere. Once in 3 days would suffice for needing to be armed.
*About 600K head of livestock in 1909, sheep and goats really don't need verdant grassland to eat (and Twain was there in 1869 FWIW). If you drive from Jerusalem to Jericho and pass the various bedouin camps, you'll see what I mean--and what Twain saw.
*What the british were getting was a crossroads linking parts of their empire.
Many of the Arab Christians volunteer to serve in the IDF because Israel has equal rights for ALL it's citizens, and because it's the moslems that are driving the Christians out, whether that's iraq, lebanon, or places under PA control like beit lechem.
Basically everything you think you know is a lie
Having been in parts of the ME you might have notice that Arabs allegiances are centered around family-clan-tribe with nation sometimes being a distant also-ran. That definitely applied in a region without a clearly defined national identity. While the british and french were carving the ottoman empire and making their own borders, Arab nationalists were calling the "palestine" and lebanon part of "greater syria".
No, the Arabs were not all illiterate farmers, but many were migrants from egypt, syria, the newly minted kingdom of jordan, and beyond, who came looking for work and a higher standard of living. Not surprising they wouldnt have a common national identity.
Jews have had a national identity since biblical times, and yes, we intended to reestablish our nation, but we were buying land (even swamps) and didn't use force until it was used on us.
The british didn't keep promises or committments made under the balfour declaration or the league-of-nations mandate (arguably the opposite). Ultimately it was money donated to the jewish national fund, and Jews in-country, that established Israel
Israel's own human rights organization B'Tselem has criticized what has happened and happens in the occupied territories, so when you say what is happening over there is a lie... it's not. There is documented proof, and I gave specific examples of the poor treatment of the Palestinians. I have also met many Palestinians who seem to have the exact same view of their treatment. Whether or not you have some Arabs fighting in the IDF is not important. For example:
There were Jewish concentration camp guards called Kapos during the holocaust (article below) and people who collaborated with the Nazis during WW2, called you guessed it "collaborationists". That's not to say, I don't think what Israel is genocide on the level of what the Nazis did. I'm just using an extreme example that just because you have people from groups helping you, doesn't mean you're treating those groups as a whole well.
Kapo - Wikipedia
Just because other Arab countries have persecuted Arab Christians doesn't give Israel moral equivalency to do it too. There was a book by a Palestinian, I think Catholic, called Blood Brothers where he documented his experiences as a Palestinian Christian. Too put it mildly, he got kicked off his land during Israel's "war of independence" and had to live in refugee camps.
Also, you make a lot of arguments that Palestinians don't really have a national identity. To me, if someone, told me it's ok to knock me out of my house because I don't have a national identity, I don't think I'd be sympathetic to that reason. Actually, I'd probably think that's more an excuse than a reason. lol
Arabs in Israel are treated better than Arabs in Palestine for sure. No argument there. To say they have equal rights is a stretch. However, the recent war that happened there was not because of the treatment of Arabs inside Israel, it was because of the evictions of Arabs living in East Jerusalem, to make room for Israeli settlers. East Jerusalem is supposed to be the Capital of a future Palestinian state. Israel knows this because the UN declared that the same time they recognized Israel as a country.
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B'ztelem is part of the far-left spectrum of Israeli politics and isn't an unbiased source.
If bernie sanders was around during WW2 HE would have been a kapo.
All the accusations you've made in your 2 posts are either factually inaccurate or ignore the cause behind the effect. You talked about apartheid. BDS (founded by the PLO--arafat&abbas) are the source of that crap. That speaks volumes about the disinformation you view as fact.
www.prageru.com
If bernie sanders was around during WW2 HE would have been a kapo.
All the accusations you've made in your 2 posts are either factually inaccurate or ignore the cause behind the effect. You talked about apartheid. BDS (founded by the PLO--arafat&abbas) are the source of that crap. That speaks volumes about the disinformation you view as fact.
Does Israel Discriminate against Arabs? | PragerU
Does Israel discriminate against Arabs? Is it today's version of apartheid South Africa? Olga Meshoe, herself a South African whose family experienced…
Mauser Fanatic, I found this article which is close to neutral. It discusses the Sheikh Jarrah/Shimon Hatzadik neighborhood and gives a bit time line into recent events
jewishunpacked.com
Sheikh Jarrah: The story behind the story
East Jerusalem has seen violent riots over the past days and weeks, with tensions surrounding the Temple Mount and the potential evictions of Palestinians from the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood. We look back at the history of this neighborhood and how what happened thousands of years ago is playing...
jewishunpacked.com
The maps of Israel and Palestine speak for themselves. There are over 600,000 Israeli "settlers" who live in "settlements" the Palestinian territories today. As the occupier, it is a war crime to resettle for Israel to resettle its people in the territories it occupies under the Geneva convention. That's a fact. Israel is intentionally scattering its settlements throughout the occupied territories to make a future Palestinian state impossible. I have a feeling you probably like books with a lot of pictures in it so please refer to the map below:B'ztelem is part of the far-left spectrum of Israeli politics and isn't an unbiased source.
If bernie sanders was around during WW2 HE would have been a kapo.
All the accusations you've made in your 2 posts are either factually inaccurate or ignore the cause behind the effect. You talked about apartheid. BDS (founded by the PLO--arafat&abbas) are the source of that crap. That speaks volumes about the disinformation you view as fact.
Does Israel Discriminate against Arabs? | PragerU
Does Israel discriminate against Arabs? Is it today's version of apartheid South Africa? Olga Meshoe, herself a South African whose family experienced…
As far as B'ztelem being a far left organization... you're correct. Praeger U is far right. I don't care the source. It's the facts I care about. If you'd like I can send you articles by Murray Rothbard, the Jewish libertarian who was very critical of Israel's policies, I say "was" because unfortunately he passed away
.Also, I'm not a fan of Praeger U's foreign interventionalist agenda. I find Praeger U and most right wing groups as Faux Conservatives. They talk a big game about saving money but won't bat an eye about writing trillion dollar checks to fight more wars that I could honestly care less about.
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