Israel on the spot justice

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  • Mongo59

    Master
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    Jul 30, 2018
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    So then why do we even have the guns? Except for, you know, hunting.
    Serious sincere question, please don’t read animosity/vitriol into this.
    Like you said, bitter pill, and I hope His grace is sufficient. Trying to understand.
    If you read these verses with the idea 'we deserve better' in your mind, it will always cause confusion.

    There is NO official or leader that was ever in place that defies God's plan. When we feel we can do better, it is not to our credit but to our condemnation that we do so.

    God set His people apart with the law, around 612 rules that regulate what you eat, how you dress, who you marry, everything! In 612 rules! On average American's add about 40,000 new laws every year. If that isn't saying to God, "thanks, we can do it better and we will take it from here...", what is?

    It isn't that God has the answer to our problems, but that He is the answer to our problems.

    Yes, we have guns but choose not to use them in ways that we each believe are 'wrong'. We, as humans, also have nuclear devices and (with the exception of our own actions) they have not been used by man on man by any of the other countries on earth. What does that make us? We see ourselves as the righteous protectors of the world and vaporized how many people? Just what does that look like to God? We allow our institutions to do our sinning for us and do not even feel responsible or, worse yet, we are proud of our actions.

    James says, "If we are friends with the world, we are an enemy of God." He says it twice. We feel we can walk through life with God on one hand and the world on the other like a child safely swinging between it's parents grasps. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    The good news is there is no sin greater than His grace. We deserve all the bad things we bring into our world and God is the only way 'to make it out alive'. This is why I say, "I wish I was a better Christian", it isn't that I have figured it all out and have the answer, of sinners I am the worst. We can't make ourselves better either, dirt doesn't sharpen dirt. All we can do is stand on the promise and allow the Holy Spirit time to change us from the inside...
     

    buckwacker

    Master
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    11   0   0
    Mar 23, 2012
    3,083
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    If you read these verses with the idea 'we deserve better' in your mind, it will always cause confusion.

    There is NO official or leader that was ever in place that defies God's plan. When we feel we can do better, it is not to our credit but to our condemnation that we do so.

    God set His people apart with the law, around 612 rules that regulate what you eat, how you dress, who you marry, everything! In 612 rules! On average American's add about 40,000 new laws every year. If that isn't saying to God, "thanks, we can do it better and we will take it from here...", what is?

    It isn't that God has the answer to our problems, but that He is the answer to our problems.

    Yes, we have guns but choose not to use them in ways that we each believe are 'wrong'. We, as humans, also have nuclear devices and (with the exception of our own actions) they have not been used by man on man by any of the other countries on earth. What does that make us? We see ourselves as the righteous protectors of the world and vaporized how many people? Just what does that look like to God? We allow our institutions to do our sinning for us and do not even feel responsible or, worse yet, we are proud of our actions.

    James says, "If we are friends with the world, we are an enemy of God." He says it twice. We feel we can walk through life with God on one hand and the world on the other like a child safely swinging between it's parents grasps. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    The good news is there is no sin greater than His grace. We deserve all the bad things we bring into our world and God is the only way 'to make it out alive'. This is why I say, "I wish I was a better Christian", it isn't that I have figured it all out and have the answer, of sinners I am the worst. We can't make ourselves better either, dirt doesn't sharpen dirt. All we can do is stand on the promise and allow the Holy Spirit time to change us from the inside...
    So the American Revolution and the newly minted US was the work of the devil? Because evil men rebelled against government that God gave to the colonies? If overthrowing their government was against God's will, how was it successful? That's just the revolution we're most familiar with. Governments are overthrown rather frequently, so how do you square that with this interpretation of the passage?
     

    Mongo59

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    Jul 30, 2018
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    So the American Revolution and the newly minted US was the work of the devil? Because evil men rebelled against government that God gave to the colonies? If overthrowing their government was against God's will, how was it successful? That's just the revolution we're most familiar with. Governments are overthrown rather frequently, so how do you square that with this interpretation of the passage?
    Our understanding is not His understanding.

    God used Nebuchadnezzar to over throw his own people. We are subject to His will, not in control of it. Just because we see a part of it does not mean we comprehend all of it. I am just telling you what the word of truth says. It also says the world has a terrible ending on the way, one that has been advertised for almost 2000 years, and how many take that for 'truth'?
     

    buckwacker

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    Mar 23, 2012
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    Our understanding is not His understanding.

    God used Nebuchadnezzar to over throw his own people. We are subject to His will, not in control of it. Just because we see a part of it does not mean we comprehend all of it. I am just telling you what the word of truth says. It also says the world has a terrible ending on the way, one that has been advertised for almost 2000 years, and how many take that for 'truth'?
    My point was, how do you determine when to submit to "unjust" rule because it is ordained or to fight against it because it is not. If we claim every government is ordained, how do we explain the ones that are overthrown? What if fighting an oppressive government was ordained and you (royal you) did nothing?
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    Martinsville
    There's a lot to be said about the current state of life in Israel, and that it has been this way for decades. And thus how this can and does take place there.

    If this were to occur here in the states, the thug-loving left would have a social media meltdown. But I say I would be ok with this level of response to lethal threats.

    And go.


    No, the left would cheer it on, just like they did for Ashli Babbitt.
     

    Tombs

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    Jan 13, 2011
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    Martinsville
    Our understanding is not His understanding.

    God used Nebuchadnezzar to over throw his own people. We are subject to His will, not in control of it. Just because we see a part of it does not mean we comprehend all of it. I am just telling you what the word of truth says. It also says the world has a terrible ending on the way, one that has been advertised for almost 2000 years, and how many take that for 'truth'?

    I'd recommend you find a new church if they have you believing nonsense like this about the scriptures.

     
    Last edited:

    Mongo59

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    God instructs us to put on the 'full armor of God'. The only offensive weapon listed is the book of truth, the Bible, which is as sharp as a double edged sword. God also calls us to be fishermen, not soldiers. Could you imagine trying to throw a cast net with a sword in your hand? It doesn't make for a good fisherman.

    If we go on the offense and feel we are capable of wielding the Bible efficiently we are in effect using a double edged sword to do fine surgery on our fellow humans. A show of hands, who here feels ready to do any surgery much less using a double edged sword? That is the point. The weapon we try to use offensively requires that everything we do is out of love. True Christians should, upon entering a room, see everyone else and their needs as more important than themselves and their needs. That is the only way Christianity will work. It is the only way it is supposed to work. If we were all to do that, who would we fight with? Surely not among ourselves, but what about those who do not share our values? Those foxes in the henhouse?

    Christ tells us that one minute we are toiling away (I call it mining in a kitty litter box, and we know the treasures that are to be found there!) in this cursed earth, living in the faith that God has plans for our prosperity. Then the next minute (maybe some heathen dispatches us) we are released from our mortal coil. In other words, we go from digging crap to walking the streets of gold. Wow, it isn't what we as humans with families and plans had in mind - but then we never know the hour or the day. Not bringing all the baggage along of the things we have 'learned' from the world, are we better or worse off? On one hand our whole lives are like a puff of smoke, a vapor, and then on the other hand we have an eternity in the presence of God. As a disinterested third party you could make the argument that the cause of your earthly demise did you a favor if it wasn't for what we 'learned' in the world told us otherwise.

    The way you 'determine when to submit' is when the only 'way out' goes against the teaching of God. If you are a slave, do everything you do as if you were doing it for God. Know scripture and it's teachings. When Satan challenged Christ it was through the understanding of scriptures. (I don't think he will give the rest of us a 'bye') If in doubt? Be still and know that He is LORD.

    None of this makes any sense to a "red blooded American" because our history tells us that "we want peace and we are willing to fight for it!" Scripture also tells us that things of the spirit sound like foolishness to people of the world and things of the world sound like foolishness to people of the spirit. I will be the first to admit I have yet to fully turn myself over to these teachings. I am a headstrong German who was trained to be a Marine. Every worldly ingrained fiber of who I am screams to do otherwise. But what truth is to be found in the world? And as a human the Bible is full of stories about what we inherently want to do, in itself, means it will be wrong.

    I don't have all the answers, and the ones I have learned in my head have not necessarily found there way to my heart. I remain a work in progress. But if the sum of my toils helps any one of you to know you are not alone, then brother, we are going places together...
     
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