Is this standard opporating procedure?

[You'll shoot your eye out]

On Friday morning at 12:25 AM, I was approaching Post road on Washington St. I saw an officer "Light up" a guy ahead just before Post Rd. The only thing I saw was the red/blues come on in the distance, so I have no idea what the traffic stop was for.

When I got there I had already went to the farthest lane, like we are supposed to. Approaching and passing the traffic stop, I see the officer standing behind the drivers side window and leaning way forward to address the driver. His gun is in his hand well behind him concealed just under his butt pressed tight to the back of his thigh. This officer was ready to go..... Right then. The driver could never have saw what I was seeing and could have no idea that this officer had drawn his pistol and presumably was quite prepared to kill him.

Coming back the other way several minutes later there was nothing there to see, Illustrating that the traffic stop had concluded without incident. The question occurred to me, Is this SOP? If that were me being stopped maybe randomly maybe not, would a weapon be drawn against me without my even knowing it also? Or does an officer judge on a case by case basis who he draws down on? Maybe a hippie? a Negro? Spanish? The smell of dope? A nice car? A raggedy car? An aggressive response from the driver? Only at night? Any other reason that escapes me at the moment?

From what I saw the officer had certainly drew his weapon before taking his position to speak to the driver. He was plainly making an effort to keep this action undisclosed. I am wondering if every traffic stop is handled like this nowadays or was this particular officer afraid for some reason that was not obvious to me? What is police dept. policy on drawing your firearm if any? How often does the average officer draw his weapon like this?

I understand that I have zero knowledge on the dynamics of this particular stop. The only thing that I DO know is that It looked a bit ugly and it raised several questions that probably are better left unasked by the citizenry if the good will between the police and the policed is to be maintained. Specifically this; If I KNEW that when an officer stopped me in traffic that it would be just like the stop that I just saw, Then I would not stop.

 

[X piller X]

Operating**

That's a pretty bad neighborhood IMO. I am no expert, but I'd assume the officer was just being prepared, and being safe. It would be different if he had come up with the gun pointed at the driver. As far as discriminating, I highly doubt that was the reason this officer had his gun drawn. Likely because at midnight on a thursday night, in that neighborhood, there are not many car on the road. Not to mention the officer is rolling alone, whereas in the daytime I typically see them rolling in pairs. Who knows what the traffic offense is, It could have been a suspect for a violent crime, whos car matches the description.

Obviously nothing went astray as you went back by and the traffic stop had concluded

 

[cdscds]

I agre with piller but a bit agrivating none the less

 

[churchmouse]

Think for a moment. In those after midnight stops the LEO never really knows who is in the vehicle and what their intentions towards him will be. There is a lot of unsavory activity around there especially at that hour. I have absolutely no issue with the LEO being prepared. I would not approach any other way at that time of night.
How is this aggravating....just curious as to how (cdscds) would deal with this scenario.........

 

[churchmouse]

On Friday morning at 12:25 AM, I was approaching Post road on Washington St. I saw an officer "Light up" a guy ahead just before Post Rd. The only thing I saw was the red/blues come on in the distance, so I have no idea what the traffic stop was for.

When I got there I had already went to the farthest lane, like we are supposed to. Approaching and passing the traffic stop, I see the officer standing behind the drivers side window and leaning way forward to address the driver. His gun is in his hand well behind him concealed just under his butt pressed tight to the back of his thigh. This officer was ready to go..... Right then. The driver could never have saw what I was seeing and could have no idea that this officer had drawn his pistol and presumably was quite prepared to kill him.

Coming back the other way several minutes later there was nothing there to see, Illustrating that the traffic stop had concluded without incident. The question occurred to me, Is this SOP? If that were me being stopped maybe randomly maybe not, would a weapon be drawn against me without my even knowing it also? Or does an officer judge on a case by case basis who he draws down on? Maybe a hippie? a Negro? Spanish? The smell of dope? A nice car? A raggedy car? An aggressive response from the driver? Only at night? Any other reason that escapes me at the moment?

From what I saw the officer had certainly drew his weapon before taking his position to speak to the driver. He was plainly making an effort to keep this action undisclosed. I am wondering if every traffic stop is handled like this nowadays or was this particular officer afraid for some reason that was not obvious to me? What is police dept. policy on drawing your firearm if any? How often does the average officer draw his weapon like this?

I understand that I have zero knowledge on the dynamics of this particular stop. The only thing that I DO know is that It looked a bit ugly and it raised several questions that probably are better left unasked by the citizenry if the good will between the police and the policed is to be maintained. Specifically this; If I KNEW that when an officer stopped me in traffic that it would be just like the stop that I just saw, Then I would not stop.

Really. I see this a lot. The bad people are out roaming around after dark. That is why we call them Zombies. Problem is, they seldom have signs on them stating who they are. If you are lit up it is best you pull yourself to the curb and find out why.

 

[Booya]

Is this for real or satire? If satire, it's poorly done.

 

[ticktwrter]

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop. In Colorado state trooper was recently shot and critically wounded stopping to check on a disabled vehicle. Here in Indiana, I know of two incidents where state troopers were shot and killed stopping to check on disabled cars. I usually approach cars I stop with my hand on my holstered gun. If I were perceiving a threat as I approached, my gun would be in my hand. I have done this numerous times in my career and the driver has never known. Sorry, I go home at the end of my shift if I have anything to say about it

 

[milton]

I want to go home to my family at night, and I'm sure that officer does too.

 

[Destro]

If the department has an SOP, it will still vary from department to department. Many circumstances could be at play here, including specific information regarding that particular vehicle (BOLO, dispatch notification, possible suspect etc.,) or prior knowledge and/or experience with the driver or passengers (history of violence, prior arrests), or something else to raise "spidey seses"

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Really. I see this a lot. The bad people are out roaming around after dark. That is why we call them Zombies. Problem is, they seldom have signs on them stating who they are. If you are lit up it is best you pull yourself to the curb and find out why.

I have no intention of interacting with a frightend man with a gun in his hand at midnight on purpose, no matter WHO he is.

Is this for real or satire? If satire, it's poorly done.

Huh? Poorly done satire? What are YOU talking about?

I want to go home to my family at night, and I'm sure that officer does too.

Oh yes the "I want to go home to my family at night" gambit....... I have news for you, I am going home to MY FAMILY too. Going home is not an activity reserved only for police. Lets look at this the other way..... What if from now on upon being stopped by a police officer, I draw MY gun and place it under my thigh..... well, you know...... JUST IN CASE!. What would you think of that?

I don't draw my weapon immediately upon feeling threatened. Unfortunately for us citizens, we must take the chance of getting killed BEFORE we draw a weapon. we cant go around pulling a gun out every time we interact with a person or we soon would be in dutch. Now this officer was making every effort to hide the fact that his gun was in hand. If his intentions were to be intimidating or threatening then this would not be so. All ended well obviously, and since I can't talk to this officer, I can't know why he felt the need to draw his weapon. I just wonder if this is a standard tactic.

I feel uncomfortable relying on the officers judgement in order that he refrain from shooting me. I want it the other way around, I want him to have to access the need to kill me BEFORE he draws the weapon. I don't want the killing to be the default position, requiring a reason NOT TO SHOOT. The default should be for everyone to be safe, not coonfingering their guns, and requiring a reason TO SHOOT instead.

Now it may be a fact that the officer had some reason to be concerned. Hence, my question is this normal for a traffic stop? It's a damn sight easier for SOMEBODY to not be going home when they first confront each other with guns in hand, just saying.

 

[BGDave]

Have seen this "behind the leg trick" more than once. Okay by me.

Not to many quick draw artists these days.

 

[Destro]

Now it may be a fact that the officer had some reason to be concerned. Hence, my question is this normal for a traffic stop? It's a damn sight easier for SOMEBODY to not be going home when they first confront each other with guns in hand, just saying.

It's not typical procedure, but it's not unusual.

 

[milton]

Now it may be a fact that the officer had some reason to be concerned. Hence, my question is this normal for a traffic stop? It's a damn sight easier for SOMEBODY to not be going home when they first confront each other with guns in hand, just saying.

This is probably it, not that he's frightened. No it's not normal, but it can happen.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop. In Colorado state trooper was recently shot and critically wounded stopping to check on a disabled vehicle. Here in Indiana, I know of two incidents where state troopers were shot and killed stopping to check on disabled cars. I usually approach cars I stop with my hand on my holstered gun. If I were perceiving a threat as I approached, my gun would be in my hand. I have done this numerous times in my career and the driver has never known. Sorry, I go home at the end of my shift if I have anything to say about it

Here is a guy to shed some light on this. I understand what you are saying. Now to ask you some questions. I'm not looking to tell you how to conduct your job, just looking for some serious discussion.

I have been stopped like this. If not by you then by an officer who conducts himself the same way. My question; do you consider the possible ramifications of approaching my car with your hand on your gun? When I see this in my mirror, and I HAVE more than once, I am threatened. My first thought is "Where is MY gun?". Is that the thought you want to be in my head at this point? I often see cops leaning on their gun like it is a counter-top or something, an unconscious mannerism brought on by the comfortable ever present object on their belt, one of the several objects there. This is not threatening. I have on other occasions saw an officer with his hand deliberately on his gun and a demeanor that he is considering drawing it at any moment. This is threatening. Have you considered that you are telegraphing your insecurity and thereby escalated the possibility of a problem several levels even before first contact?

I am not the only civilian who responds to an overt threat in kind. I am not likely to take your bullet simply because you have the legal authority to shoot at people at random and I don't. There is a disconnect between what the law requires and what is a normal common response that any average person might have. I am supposed to submit to your drawing and possibly shooting me, but you could be betting your life that I will respond in this UNNATURAL and conditioned way. It's possible that I will think " Sorry, I go home at the end of my shift if I have anything to say about it". (I know that you cannot deny this sentiment.... It is YOUR quote)

I am not being an internet tough guy. I am being realistic. I know myself and I know how I react to certain stimulus. As for myself, it's much safer to show some courage when confronting me than it is to try to rely on intimidation. I concede that your intent may not to be intimidating but rather your only concern is to be ready for a problem. You may even feel that we BOTH are safer if you are commanding the situation. What you may not know is that there are more people than you know who are just like me. Instead of commanding the situation, you have needlessly endangered both of us and the general public to boot, by SHOWING insecurity in a threatening way.

 

[rhino]

If he was concerned enough to have his weapon drawn, why didn't he approach on the passenger side?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've done it.

A likely scenario is something like this:

Gray 4 door Toyota is taken in a carjacking. No plate info yet.

While enroute, you see a car matching the description speeding away from the area the carjacking occurred.

You now really have no idea if its the right car or not. Doing a full felony stop isn't the best approach, but more than normal caution is warranted. Having your gun out is that middle ground. If it turns out everything's fine, the driver is freaked out by getting ordered out of the car at gun point and is probably none the wiser that he was stopped for anything other than speeding, got a quick warning, and was on his way.

License plates can also have warrant hits attached. Obviously, you don't know if the person with the warrant is driving or not. Again, full felony stop probably isn't the best approach, so the middle ground is taken.

So, is it SOP: Maybe. It depends on the situation.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If he was concerned enough to have his weapon drawn, why didn't he approach on the passenger side?

Multiple occupants? Driver too close to barricade? Second officer unseen watching that side? Believes the occupant is likely to foot bail?

I'm a big fan of passenger side approach, but like most things there are always instances where it doesn't make sense.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Unfortunately for us citizens, we must take the chance of getting killed BEFORE we draw a weapon. we cant go around pulling a gun out every time we interact with a person or we soon would be in dutch. Now this officer was making every effort to hide the fact that his gun was in hand. If his intentions were to be intimidating or threatening then this would not be so. All ended well obviously, and since I can't talk to this officer, I can't know why he felt the need to draw his weapon. I just wonder if this is a standard tactic.

No, you don't have to give someone the chance to kill you before you draw your weapon. As INGO points out all the time, there is no 'brandishing' law in Indiana, only pointing a firearm. Common sense goes a long way, or to be more legal-beagle, "reaonableness".

 

[45fan]

I fully understand what you are saying, and agree to an extent. Zero dark thirty on a no so populated hi-way, on a not so good side of town, I would be somewhere in the neighborhood of condition orangish-red if in that position. (Speaking purely hypothetically here, as I am not LEO) I would assume that the officer in question has already run the plates before stepping out of his car, and has also radioed in to the effect that he is stepping out of his cruiser for the purpose of a traffic stop, and passed on the vehicle plates and description.

There is a certain amount of information that the officer can assess before stepping out to investigate further, and probably will approach according to the information he has, and the situation at hand. Given that one officer was already shot in southern Indiana last night, he was probably a bit more on edge than normal, as any sane person would be.

That said, I do see quite a bit of unholstered weapons in the hands of police these days, and seemingly over aggressiveness in many interactions with the public. Perhaps the best way to handle this to the benefit of everyone would be to require the officer to write a brief report every time his equipment (to include gun, tazer, pepper spray) leaves his belt. Someone could then evaluate the reports, and assess weather or not the officer was over-reacting or not. This could facilitate a preemptive action on the departments behalf if an officer exhibits an overly aggressive pattern in dealing with the public. It could save the department, and officer a lot of headaches, and possibly an officer's life. This could also, in turn, save the life of a civilian that happens to cross paths with an officer that is becoming more and more aggressive in his day to day actions.

 

[Booya]

Huh? Poorly done satire? What are YOU talking about?

Are not the responses you're getting common sense? I'm not a LEO, but I can think of 1000 reasons why you might see something like this and all of them I can think of almost instantly. If it was SOP don't you think this type of thing would be seen regularly? Your OP speaks as if every traffic stop might occur this way and every LEO that approaches a vehicle is ready to murder the occupant(s). I just think the whole thing is lacking a bit of common sense and spoken very antagonistically. Almost 1/2 the sentences I feel like I could have responded to just using common sense. Not to mention, to address pretty much all your questions one would need aaaayy more info then you provided or could have even possibly known.

Your follow up statements read as if you're waiting for a shoot out with the police. 99.9% of every traffic stop you or I will be involved in will go just as you'd hopefully imagine it, without incident. You get stopped, you talk, you get a ticket or you don't, you drive away. Don't get me wrong there are some dip$#!t LEO's out there, but they are far fewer then the good ones, they just get all the publicity. If there was a video on youtube for every LEO interaction the good would outweigh the bad exponentially.