Is It Good For The Gun Cause To Bash Suppliers On The Open Internet?

[Ingomike]

We have had several venting threads bashing even local purveyors of ranges, supplies, and training. Do theses help the overall cause of promoting gun rights, and broadening the options available to us or do they hurt the cause? I do not think we should ever create a thread specifically to bash any 2A supplier on the forum, especially those supporting the site, and limit the negative we do in general threads to facts. This is the open internet and the supplier you hurt may be one that many other members rely on.

Now, to what I did not say that I will be accused of. You can tell your buddies anything you want, I did not suggest any restrictions on speech, but rather that we protect those we have supplying us by not creating a full rant on the open internet because you don’t like their policies…

 

[DadSmith]

 

[rosejm]

I can see your point.
I can also see the need for truthful reviews and experience sharing within the community. Not everyone provides the quality of product/service that one might expect.

How do/did you feel about exposing CTD's pricing methods or DUST's training advice?

 

[ditcherman]

Is Cheaper Than Dirt having a big sale you’re wanting to hit up?

 

[churchmouse]

CTD deserves ever piece of negative they receive for the seriously poor business they run.
Yet soooo many continue to use them.....

 

[Ingomike]

I can see your point.
I can also see the need for truthful reviews and experience sharing within the community. Not everyone provides the quality of product/service that one might expect.

How do/did you feel about exposing CTD's pricing methods or DUST's training advice?

I believe the two different issues. I have no issues discussing trainers and advice they give, that is a valuable forum function. As for pricing and business practices by retailers, we do not know it all, all we know is what is in our world.

Apparently someone likes or needs the way they supply 2A needs, hypothetical here, maybe CTD is set up to supply highly restricted states and their pricing reflects that. Then posts from states with more freedoms are posted hurting them and the availability of 2A supplies in the restricted states.

Some Company has to be the most expensive…

 

[Ingomike]

CTD deserves ever piece of negative they receive for the seriously poor business they run.
Yet soooo many continue to use them.....

There has to be a reason. Nothing happens for no reason. See my hypothetical in post above.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I'd have to say "it depends" to the OP. If a business has poor customer service, rude employees, etc., then I see no reason not to warn others about that. They shouldn't get a pass just because they happen to be in the "gun business". They should earn a good reputation. CTD is a good example, but we've also seen online businesses that are kinda shady with their slow shipping times, canceling orders without letting customers know, etc.. If it's just a case of a personality clash with someone in a gun shop, that's one thing, but if they treat customers badly, I don't see anything wrong with warning others.

 

[ditcherman]

Ok I see what you’re talking about now.
I don’t even get what the problem was, not very well explained, let alone defended.

We divide ourselves all the time on here, arguing, sometimes even forming new opinions.

As far as bashing a supplier, there’s a point where it’s just complaining and there’s a point where someone needs to be encouraged to do a better job. Can’t deny that would be a good thing to encourage.

I think it’s a real problem to see how divided we are on here on so many different topics that many would assume to be foundational.

 

[ditcherman]

Pretty telling that someone says “don’t bash suppliers” and immediately 6 out of the total 9 responses discuss “CTD”.

 

[Kurr]

I kind of think that anytime you find your self going against your own desire, self interest or what you think is right for the 'good of the cause' or 'good of the party" your on a steep and slippery slope no matter the topic.

 

[gregkl]

If the shoe fits...

I appreciate a head's up if someone has difficulties with a supplier. I only have a finite amount of money to spend I prefer to spend it with businesses that pride themselves on world class customer service.

If we are going to do that, wouldn't this cross over into USPSA guys bashing IDPA and the like? I remember when I asked a highly respected person here on INGO about shooting IDPA. He was a USPSA shooter. His response was, "Why bother? I don't get the point."

I think if you are honest in your summation of someone you dealt with, present it in a reasonable, factual post with the understanding of the size of the sample set, its okay with me. We read often here about someone with a bad experience at XYZ, only to have succeeding posts praising the virtues of the same business.

I will say this about trainers. I will do an AAR about the class. If I didn't like the instructor, I won't bring that out in the AAR but will answer questions via PM. Just because I didn't like a guy, doesn't mean someone else won't.

 

[MCgrease08]

The fundamental question is do we believe in and advocate for free markets or not?

If a business stinks, feedback from customers can provide good market insights that business can and should use to improve their business model. I don't see any benefit of trying to hide or downplay legitimate criticism over some perceived fear it might erode support for gun rights in the future.

People that don't like guns don't like guns. No amount of self censorship restraint is going change those opinions. What changes hearts and minds is an anti-gun person having a good experience with firearms, generally led by someone with patience, understanding and a teacher's mindset. If someone or something in the gun industry doesn't understand or embrace that, what's the benefit of trying to protect them?

Say what you want about Point Blank's stupid ID scanning policy, the atmosphere and environment they offer is pretty welcoming and non threatening to the non-hardcore gun guy or gal. Compare that to the hole in the wall gun store with Cletus and Bubba jaw-jacking behind the counter and ignoring anyone that isn't a regular. We've all been to that shop and been turned off by it.

Now does that mean we shouldn't call out Point Blank and let people know they're going to scan your ID for no reason just because they have other tangible benefits?

I don't think so.

Maybe I won't buy something there because of their policy, but if I am taking a first time shooter to the range, it's probably on the short list of where I would take them. If they lose sales over the policy, maybe they'll change it. If they don't, they won't. No sense in me losing sleep over it.

Life is full of tradeoffs. I don't see any benefit in trying to protect anyone or any vendor over bad business practices in search of some nebulous greater good.

 

[gregkl]

The fundamental question is do we believe in and advocate for free markets or not?

If a business stinks, feedback from customers can provide good market insights that business can and should use to improve their business model. I don't see any benefit of trying to hide or downplay legitimate criticism over some perceived fear it might erode support for gun rights in the future.

People that don't like guns don't like guns. No amount of self censorship restraint is going change those opinions. What changes hearts and minds is an anti-gun person having a good experience with firearms, generally led by someone with patience, understanding and a teacher's mindset. If someone or something in the gun industry doesn't understand or embrace that, what's the benefit of trying to protect them?

Say what you want about Point Blank's stupid ID scanning policy, the atmosphere and environment they offer is pretty welcoming and non threatening to the non-hardcore gun guy or gal. Compare that to the hole in the wall gun store with Cletus and Bubba jaw-jacking behind the counter and ignoring anyone that isn't a regular. We've all been to that shop and been turned off by it.

Now does that mean we shouldn't call out Point Blank and let people know they're going to scan your ID for no reason just because they have other tangible benefits?

I don't think so.

Maybe I won't buy something there because of their policy, but if I am taking a first time shooter to the range, it's probably on the short list of where I would take them. If they lose sales over the policy, maybe they'll change it. If they don't, they won't. No sense in me losing sleep over it.

Life is full of tradeoffs. I don't see any benefit in trying to protect anyone or any vendor over bad business practices in search of some nebulous greater good.

Funny thing about that SPB thing. I have shot there several times and always had a good time. The RO is/was cool and the range is nice. I also purchased a firearm from them once. They actually had the best deal even against my usual online suppliers. The guy making the sale was nice and the paperwork was no different then what I usually do to purchase a firearm.

Other than to my range, they would be the first place I would take a new shooter. That or Top Guns in Terre Haute.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

If a vendor is like any of these companies, they deserve every negative review that is posted by sad customers.

Hesse
Vulcan
Special weapons
Blackthorn

They set the standard for horrible quality and evil customer service. Better to warn everyone than allow people to be ripped off.

 

[***Ironhead***]

If a vendor is like any of these companies, they deserve every negative review that is posted by sad customer.

Hesse
Vulcan
Special weapons
Blackthorn

They set the standard for horrible quality and evil customer service. Better to warn everyone than allow people to be ripped off.

Agreed, how dare us expect service from a service provider. In my opinion it doesn’t matter what they are providing. Just because they provide to a specific clientele doesn’t give them a free pass. That is crazy.

 

[johntheplinker]

Agreed, how dare us expect service from a service provider. In my opinion it doesn’t matter what they are providing. Just because they provide to a specific clientele doesn’t give them a free pass. That is crazy.

Well said!

 

[Ingomike]

Pretty telling that someone says “don’t bash suppliers” and immediately 6 out of the total 9 responses discuss “CTD”.

Never dealt with them, what did they do that is worthy of the death penalty?

 

[marvin02]

Never dealt with them, what did they do that is worthy of the death penalty?

If you're advice is followed no one can answer you. It might be considered bashing.

Honest opinions about the experience of dealing with a vendor should be welcome whether they deal in widgets or firearms. The term YMMV certainly applies when discussing service. My experience with a company may be 180 degrees from yours, but if we both relate our experiences honestly others can use them to aid in the decision of whether to deal with that company.

I know I'm not the only one who searches for reviews when deciding whether to buy from a company I've never dealt with.

 

[churchmouse]

Ok I see what you’re talking about now.
I don’t even get what the problem was, not very well explained, let alone defended.

We divide ourselves all the time on here, arguing, sometimes even forming new opinions.

As far as bashing a supplier, there’s a point where it’s just complaining and there’s a point where someone needs to be encouraged to do a better job. Can’t deny that would be a good thing to encourage.

I think it’s a real problem to see how divided we are on here on so many different topics that many would assume to be foundational.

It’s the interwebs. SOP pretty much.
The divide we are seeing has been widened by design over my time on Ingo. We have always argued. But it has gotten worse.