Indianapolis Redline. Beginning of a Cluster F%&*

[Cameramonkey]

The Redline has now been cut short... it will now no longer service Nora, it will be stopping at 66th st.

They say "there have been no complaints"... maybe because nobody rides it?

They're still moving forward with Blue, Purple, Burnt Umber, Chartreuse, and Gamboge lines though.

And why havent sales of rails, feathers, and tar spiked?

Based on the first line, the other lines should not continue.

And dont get me started on the fact that they STILL havent met their private funding obligations required to continue.

 

[KMaC]

We have officially reached "Too Big To Fail" status.
They have spent insane amounts of money, barely have a functioning facility, nothing close to sustainable ridership/revenue, and now a downsized product. And no one, taxpayer or politician, is even complaining let alone trying to stop this madness.

 

[singlesix]

They are hoping most people have lost interest, like most public projects and associated taxes, most people don't care

 

[rooster]

Traffic congestion has to reach ridiculous levels every day before many will give up their cars. Cost to own and park said car has to become astronomical as well.

 

[Leadeye]

My guess is that you can't be stylish, hip and woke city leadership if you don't have expensive, corrupt, and failing public transportation. Tax revolts and recall elections might be in order.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Traffic congestion has to reach ridiculous levels every day before many will give up their cars. Cost to own and park said car has to become astronomical as well.

and it will only benefit a tiny group. I looked into taking the bus once. It would be a 3 hour trip each way, with 4-6 transfers.

Its 45 minutes on a bad day in rush hour traffic.

EDIT: And I'd have to drive at least a mile and a half to find the closest bus stop.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Cost to own and park said car has to become astronomical as well.

They're working on it!

 

[JAL]

Traffic congestion has to reach ridiculous levels every day before many will give up their cars. Cost to own and park said car has to become astronomical as well.

Commute distances must also become quite large in addition to time consumed. While in grad school at USC ~32 years ago (Systems Engineering and Mgmt), one of the other teams in one of my courses studied CalTrans efforts to force people to rideshare (aka carpool) -- literally force people by requiring (by law) employers to require it as a condition of (continued) employment. Never got that far as it became clear it would immediately fail legal challenges, plus the screeching hue and cry raised by the large aerospace employers that wanted nothing to do with it was deafening. They found -- in their extremely well-done and extensive study -- that you weren't going to get people to willingly look for carpooling, commuter buses or light rail, and forego driving their own car by themselves, until the one-way commute distance rose to ~30 miles and time exceeded an hour (also one-way). Average 4-5 lane wide (on just one side) freeway speed during the rush (three) hour(s) was 20 mph with much of it a crawling stop and go. My own anecdotal observations about commuter buses and carpooling bore that out. It was the same here when my last employer put together voluntary ridesharing programs including providing ten passenger vans (the users had to provide the gas for it). Southern California has light rail running down the middle of some freeways now. It's been mostly successful for long commute distances of 25-50 miles (one way), not for shorter distances or small loops. Success also depends on infrastructure in the form of rideshare parking lots adjacent to freeway on/off ramps, to support ride sharing and especially commuter buses. Essential for light rail.

There's a host of reasons people will not give up their car (or truck) to commute to work as you lose considerable flexibility going to or from work including making stops for errands on the way home, having to deal with child care before and after the commute ride, not during the commute, and being tied to the carpool schedule, especially if you needed to work late on something, including a few asshat managers that were notorious for starting "emergency" late afternoon meetings that would run well past normal business hours. The commuter van would wait about ten minutes if someone was late, with an attempt to reach them by phone, but would leave without them if they didn't show and couldn't be reached by phone. Paying taxi fare to go 30-40 miles isn't cheap; the company ended up having to reimburse those who were prevented from leaving work on time. All this had been predicted in the USC study while I was in grad school and saw it play out here fifteen years later.

 

[BugI02]

My guess is that you can't be stylish, hip and woke city leadership if you don't have expensive, corrupt, and failing public transportation. Tax revolts and recall elections might be in order.

Amateurs . Our bus line has a 0.25% sales tax rider devoted to its expenses, so it has a constant revenue stream. The CEO of COTA makes more than the mayor

 

[thompal]

The Redline has now been cut short... it will now no longer service Nora, it will be stopping at 66th st.

They say "there have been no complaints"... maybe because nobody rides it?

They're still moving forward with Blue, Purple, Burnt Umber, Chartreuse, and Gamboge lines though.

is that because they were having a difficult time getting the electric buses to get all the way up there?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Until you overcome the cultural stigma (and often the reality) that taking the bus is for the poors and the crazies, you're selling the American Midwestern public a ketchup popsicle. Even then, the logistics of it aren't there. We are not, as a society, designed for easy use of mass transit. We are not even "walkable" in most areas. Plus, our weather often sucks. Who wants to wait at a bus stop in freezing weather, heavy rain, etc. So, yeah, ketchup popsicle. Nobody wants it and it's messy if you're forced to have one.

It works better in much of Europe because the cities were built when foot and hoof was the only way to get around. The cities are walkable and that is instrumental in mass transit working. Things like shopping are not as centralized and more intermixed with residentials. Underground mass transit eliminates a lot of the weather concerns. It's much less sucky to wait 5 minutes for a train in climate controlled and well lit subway stations then in boot-pouring rain by a busy roadway of splashing cars...

 

[Leadeye]

I have no idea how cities in Europe are, but walking in many US cities is asking for trouble.

 

[drillsgt]

I have no idea how cities in Europe are, but walking in many US cities is asking for trouble.

Yep, and just to make it extra exciting places like Chicago make it illegal to carry on public transit.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have no idea how cities in Europe are, but walking in many US cities is asking for trouble.

I've never had any issues. Closest I came was a likely pickpocket watching me and he realized pretty quickly I was watching him watching me and moved on.

There are just more people out, for one. People walk places, there are lots of little stores instead of a few really big stores, little cafes, etc even in "residential" areas. Obviously this doesn't apply everywhere all the time, they have rural areas and suburbs as well.

 

[JAL]

I lived in Germany for some years, albeit during the Cold War. You could walk just about anywhere. In addition, as BehindBlueI's posted, the cities are much more urban with small bakeries, butchers, pubs and grocery stores intermingled with the flats and apartments. Many walked with pull cart to go get meat, bread and other groceries including fresh produce every two to three days. Refrigerators are tiny by comparison and the freezers in them might old one ice tray plus a liter of ice cream. They don't freeze much of anything. There are some quasi-suburban residential areas near the edges of cities, but you didn't have to drive far to go shopping . . . usually only a couple miles or less.

John

 

[KMaC]

Amateurs . Our bus line has a 0.25% sales tax rider devoted to its expenses, so it has a constant revenue stream. The CEO of COTA makes more than the mayor

Please don't tell the city council about the sales tax idea. We're already paying a food/car rental/hotel room tax for a stadium I've never been in.

 

[***Ironhead***]

Please don't tell the city council about the sales tax idea. We're already paying a food/car rental/hotel room tax for a stadium I've never been in.

Hoosier dome (RCA) or Lucas oil? Aren’t we still being taxed for the Hoosier dome?

 

[KMaC]

Food and beverage tax is for Lucas Oil. Yes, we're stilling paying for the Hoosier Dome. They rolled that debt into the bond for Lucas Oil Stadium.. They renewed the Hoosier Dome bonds every time they came due. Never pay anything off.
The CIB owed more when they tore down the Hoosier Dome than what they paid to build it because they kept borrowing operating costs and adding them to a bond renewal.

 

[BigRed]

I lived in Germany for some years, albeit during the Cold War. You could walk just about anywhere. In addition, as BehindBlueI's posted, the cities are much more urban with small bakeries, butchers, pubs and grocery stores intermingled with the flats and apartments. Many walked with pull cart to go get meat, bread and other groceries including fresh produce every two to three days. Refrigerators are tiny by comparison and the freezers in them might old one ice tray plus a liter of ice cream. They don't freeze much of anything. There are some quasi-suburban residential areas near the edges of cities, but you didn't have to drive far to go shopping . . . usually only a couple miles or less.

John

Indeed.

Some enjoy being packed one upon another as long as they can walk for a loaf of bread.

Others enjoy 1,000 acres to make their own.

 

[Ark]

Others enjoy 1,000 acres to make their own.

Got a couple million bucks sitting around?