Incompetent carrying

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  • Frosty

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Jan 27, 2013
    8,389
    113
    Greencastle
    I spoke with someone today who carry’s a beretta px4 storm. They carry in a floppy nylon Blackhawk holster with no retention, carrying fmj’s as self defense ammo, and then called magazines “clips” :n00b: I definitely steered them towards a lot more education, both here and training, and recommended a
    Few quality holsters. The thing that gets me is he said he knows several people he works with also carry and nobody has had that conversation with him? So I wonder, how many people out there know nothing about actually carrying a handgun but are anyway???
     
    Last edited:
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Jan 18, 2009
    2,169
    113
    SE Indy
    I would agree those are not optimal conditions or equipment but... better than a pointy stick. Budget could be a constraint. Not everyone will drop a hundred on a quality holster. (I would)
    Some feel that FMJ Is good enough. I Dont either but. Its a starting point. My concern would be there ability to put to use those items in a manner where there not a danger to themselves or others. My advice would be some training and ALOT of practice. Then a little more training. At that point carry what whatever you want.
     

    rooster

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Mar 4, 2010
    3,306
    113
    Indianapolis
    It’s our responsibility as friends/family/ect of uneducated people to attempt to educate them. It’s hard to do when everyone hates to admit they don’t know what they are doing but you gotta try.

    Dad had a crappy no retention holster for his first carry. He did nothing but owb so I went and got him a nice safariland paddle holster. Now I don’t have to worry so much about him snagging the trigger in a nylon holster. Next step is a better belt but his is sufficient for the time being.

    Heck send them a link to this forum or another info source in some none confrontational way as maybe sharing a cool link with them.

    Tons of ways to go about educating people without just straight up saying “no you’re wrong”
     

    Frosty

    Grandmaster
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    11   0   0
    Jan 27, 2013
    8,389
    113
    Greencastle
    It’s our responsibility as friends/family/ect of uneducated people to attempt to educate them. It’s hard to do when everyone hates to admit they don’t know what they are doing but you gotta try.

    Dad had a crappy no retention holster for his first carry. He did nothing but owb so I went and got him a nice safariland paddle holster. Now I don’t have to worry so much about him snagging the trigger in a nylon holster. Next step is a better belt but his is sufficient for the time being.

    Heck send them a link to this forum or another info source in some none confrontational way as maybe sharing a cool link with them.

    Tons of ways to go about educating people without just straight up saying “no you’re wrong”
    I definitely sent him links to ingo, and to a few holster makers. Hopefully he’ll come do some reading.
     

    Rookie

    Grandmaster
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    14   0   0
    Sep 22, 2008
    18,155
    113
    Kokomo
    Quite a few times, I've run across people who fit your description. Most of the time, they put off an air of badass who is looking for confrontation. I did run across a guy carrying his gun in a cheap holster with a velcro retention strap and his magazine was halfway out of his gun. I let him know...
     

    Frosty

    Grandmaster
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    11   0   0
    Jan 27, 2013
    8,389
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    Greencastle
    Quite a few times, I've run across people who fit your description. Most of the time, they put off an air of badass who is looking for confrontation. I did run across a guy carrying his gun in a cheap holster with a velcro retention strap and his magazine was halfway out of his gun. I let him know...
    Not this guy, he’s definitely not confrontational or a know it all so at least he has the ability to learn, he did mention he’s ejected his magazine a few times because of the holster… I figured that would be your first clue that you need a new holster?
     

    Brad69

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jul 16, 2016
    5,104
    77
    Perry county
    Most that carry have no idea IMO!

    While FMJ in .45 is a proven fight stopper any modern defense round is superior.
    Pistol shooting takes training and regular practice. We are preaching to the choir most people don’t understand the need for basic training.
    It‘s a talisman to most people they believe just drawing a weapon will make a criminal run. Unfortunately most criminals have been shot, stabbed, beaten during their career.

    A “rough” person will prey on the weak!
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
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    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,734
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    Lafayette, IN
    Here is an opinion from a grumpy old man,

    When I worked at a shop, people would come in with crappy, ill fitting holsters. I never tried to tell them they were wrong, or stupid. I would simply make an effort to show them a much superior holster. Even if they did not have the money, or buy it from me, at least they would start thinking about it.

    Yes, there are dozens of snazzy hollow point rounds for defensive purposes, but any reliable ammo that feeds through the gun (and the guy can hit with) will work. Like armalitesheepdog said, better than a pointed stick. I never saw Uncle Sam issue hollow points. I carry hollow points when I can, but would not hesitate to use wadcutters if that is what I had. Especially these days, finding ammo of any kind is sketchy.

    I never get too upset with terminology. Magazine, clip, box, who cares? If the guy knows how to load and handle his firearm, I am not judging his vocabulary. I have spoken to National Champions that have used less than proper terminology sometimes in a sloppy way, maybe trying to be funny. No harm. If someone asks, I'll help them learn.

    Direct safety issue, I speak directly, Muzzle pointed at me earns immediate response with little care about hurting someones feelings.
     

    Dean C.

    Master
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    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2013
    4,429
    113
    Westfield
    I see a decent amount of floppy uncle mikes nylon holsters with a Walmart belt not made to support the weight of a handgun. Usually I just laugh internally , if it's someone I know I will generally try to educate them if they are willing to learn. When starting newbies out with guns I always make sure to remind them when planning their first purchase of a firearm to leave $300 extra set aside for a good belt, holster, cleaning supplies, eyes and ears , and all the other extras.

    I feel like all too often people will budget for a gun for CCW but spend 90% of their budget on just the gun and then have to skimp as hard as possible on everything else. It's often interesting as most I talk to who go the uncle mikes route always complain about how carrying is uncomfortable. Then if they take my advice the comments are always something like "this is so much better".

    Ammo selection is a whole separate issue almost, I am a big fan of 9mm myself but with the big caveat of I want modern hollow points (specifically Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T's or Gold Dots). With modern bullet technologies we have projectiles that will reliably penetrate deep enough and very reliabily expand (FBI shootout for what a "bad" hollow point can cause IMHO).

    That all being said pistols suck at terminal ballistics , but that's what we are going to be stuck with as civilians IMHO so that's what I focus my shooting on.
     

    NHT3

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    52   0   0
    Probably too much time as RSO but I learned very quickly that some appreciated, but a bigger percentage were offended and in a few cases became confrontational. How they justify the "good to go" attitude without training is a puzzle to me but that's just one of many attitudes that I don't have answers for.

    I was in several classes with BBIs and Coach at the helm and have their thoughts on this subject written down but I'm not going to threadjack this into a training thread. We already have an abundance of those.

    Looking at a muzzle gets an immediate response from me but other than that I wait to be asked for help or advice. YMMV
     
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    Frosty

    Grandmaster
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    11   0   0
    Jan 27, 2013
    8,389
    113
    Greencastle
    I never get too upset with terminology. Magazine, clip, box, who cares? If the guy knows how to load and handle his firearm, I am not judging his vocabulary. I have spoken to National Champions that have used less than proper terminology sometimes in a sloppy way, maybe trying to be funny. No harm. If someone asks, I'll help them learn.
    That part was meant more tongue in cheek, as he said it he gave me a look like “I just screwed that up” :): Said guy is my nephew so giving him a little grief is important.
     

    Trapper Jim

    Master
    Site Supporter
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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2012
    2,676
    77
    Arcadia
    I spoke with someone today who carry’s a beretta px4 storm. They carry in a floppy nylon Blackhawk holster with no retention, carrying fmj’s as self defense ammo, and then called magazines “clips” :n00b: I definitely steered them towards a lot more education, both here and training, and recommended a
    Few quality holsters. The thing that gets me is he said he knows several people he works with also carry and nobody has had that conversation with him? So I wonder, how many people out there know nothing about actually carrying a handgun but are anyway???
    You think. ? Not a week goes by in training that an applicant starts out….oh, I’ve been around guns my whole life, or I was in the military so I’m not sure why I’m here, or I used to be a police officer, or I’ve carried for 7 years now, etc…..

    Then when they see their eval score, glazed eyes.

    Scary….
     

    Colts Ironman

    Sua Sponte, Rangers Lead the Way
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    23   0   0
    Aug 22, 2021
    717
    43
    NW Indianapolis
    If he bought that gun at a shop, the sales person failed him. Just a little education even from the store when buying is better than none. As said before, at least he didn't have a "pointy stick" but if he didn't have the education to know how to carry and hope retention is important and or the education on the ballistics between SD and fmj ammo, he's more than likely not educated in how to self defend if he had to use said gun. Just because one goes out and gets a car, doesn't mean they know how to drive but they can sit in it and look pretty. If that makes sense lol

    I am sure we will see a lot more of this come July 1st.
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,687
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    I spoke with someone today who carry’s a beretta px4 storm. They carry in a floppy nylon Blackhawk holster with no retention, carrying fmj’s as self defense ammo, and then called magazines “clips” :n00b: I definitely steered them towards a lot more education, both here and training, and recommended a
    Few quality holsters. The thing that gets me is he said he knows several people he works with also carry and nobody has had that conversation with him? So I wonder, how many people out there know nothing about actually carrying a handgun but are anyway???
    The vast majority of them.

    As someone mentioned, budget can be an issue, but it is not limited to that. I see plenty of people with not only adequate, but downright expensive (think multiple Staccatos) gear who couldn't shoot, or fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

    The issue being that most people fall at the unconscious incompetence level and just stay there with Dunning Kruger in full effect.
     
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