Ilegal Immigration

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  • AtTheMurph

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    Drugs and hiring practices are completely different things. The incentive to hire illegals is simple. They are cheaper and have less legal protections. Nobody is addicted to hiring illegals and nobody feels so terrible not hiring illegals they'll suck a dirty...sock in order to do so.

    You think you're local HR manager is willing to risk prison time to hire an illegal? Unlike the crackheads pooping in the trash cans downtown, he has something to lose.
    There are plenty of jobs for illegals to perform off the books. There is demand for the labor.

    Whether or not you make it illegal, just like some drugs, there will always be people who will fill the demand.

    And why should we make it illegal for anyone to work? It boggles my mind tat anyone would even suggest such a thing.

    What I am talking about is removing our current perverse incentives to cross the border illegally. If the incentive is merely to have an opportunity to work and improve one's life, why would any American have an issue with that?

    Isn't that exactly the type of person we should welcome with open arms? Someone who wants to work, better their life, maybe raise a family, build a business, save some money and contribute?

    Our system now is set up to create criminals, attract criminals, lazy, economic migrants and not "asylum seekers" (which is a great lie. If they sought asylum, Mexico would be flooded with people seeking asylum there. You don't get to choose your asylum destination.)
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    There are plenty of jobs for illegals to perform off the books. There is demand for the labor.

    Whether or not you make it illegal, just like some drugs, there will always be people who will fill the demand.

    And why should we make it illegal for anyone to work? It boggles my mind tat anyone would even suggest such a thing.

    What I am talking about is removing our current perverse incentives to cross the border illegally. If the incentive is merely to have an opportunity to work and improve one's life, why would any American have an issue with that?

    Isn't that exactly the type of person we should welcome with open arms? Someone who wants to work, better their life, maybe raise a family, build a business, save some money and contribute?

    Our system now is set up to create criminals, attract criminals, lazy, economic migrants and not "asylum seekers" (which is a great lie. If they sought asylum, Mexico would be flooded with people seeking asylum there. You don't get to choose your asylum destination.)

    There is no perfect solution. Of course there will still be some under the table work. It would eliminate a huge portion of it, though, which then makes it easier to focus enforcement actions as stated.

    As for the rest, I feel like you missed this:

    Or, you know, keep them from working illegally here, have a reasonable legal work visa program...
     

    BE Mike

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    There are plenty of jobs for illegals to perform off the books. There is demand for the labor.

    Whether or not you make it illegal, just like some drugs, there will always be people who will fill the demand.

    And why should we make it illegal for anyone to work? It boggles my mind tat anyone would even suggest such a thing.

    What I am talking about is removing our current perverse incentives to cross the border illegally. If the incentive is merely to have an opportunity to work and improve one's life, why would any American have an issue with that?

    Isn't that exactly the type of person we should welcome with open arms? Someone who wants to work, better their life, maybe raise a family, build a business, save some money and contribute?

    Our system now is set up to create criminals, attract criminals, lazy, economic migrants and not "asylum seekers" (which is a great lie. If they sought asylum, Mexico would be flooded with people seeking asylum there. You don't get to choose your asylum destination.)
    There need to be laws and procedures in place with screening and those laws need enforcing. That's what immigration laws are all about. The laws are in place to protect our way of life. That is a difficult concept for some people to grasp. If we let everyone into the U.S. who wants to come, we'll end up a third world country. It isn't illegal to work. It is illegal for employers to hire undocumented aliens. Of course, allowing everyone in seems to be the current policy. I recon you support that, right?
     

    Expat

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    I would be for a little bit of all of the above approach.
    Finish the wall, increase border security, stricter enforcement, more stringent penalties.
    Get rid of welfare benefits, make it where no illegal or their children can get any benefit from any government, charity or other individual, period.
    Increase severity of penalties on employers.
     

    BE Mike

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    How do military bases prevent people getting in?

    I'd wager some sensors and some drones would stop about 90% of illegal crossings.
    The concept of a wall is more of an idea than something physical.
    Sensors have been used for many decades along the border. Drones are a more recent addition, but are in current use, as well as, aircraft and boats. The people enforcing the laws like the idea of a wall in certain places. Isn't it better to let those who are in the thick of it, decide what works and what does not?
     

    AtTheMurph

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    There need to be laws and procedures in place with screening and those laws need enforcing. That's what immigration laws are all about. The laws are in place to protect our way of life. That is a difficult concept for some people to grasp. If we let everyone into the U.S. who wants to come, we'll end up a third world country. It isn't illegal to work. It is illegal for employers to hire undocumented aliens. Of course, allowing everyone in seems to be the current policy. I recon you support that, right?
    if we let everyone in who wants to come here, work and save and raise a family and better themselves, like 95% of the people who came to this country from 1500-1930, we will become a 3rd world country?

    That's the craziest thing I think I have ever read.

    if we return the USA to the land of opportunity and get rid of this land of entitlement the people who come here will be exactly the type of people you want.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    if we let everyone in who wants to come here, work and save and raise a family and better themselves, like 95% of the people who came to this country from 1500-1930, we will become a 3rd world country?

    That's the craziest thing I think I have ever read.

    if we return the USA to the land of opportunity and get rid of this land of entitlement the people who come here will be exactly the type of people you want.

    Flooding the nation with primarily unskilled workers is a not a path to 3rd world status, it's a path to serfdom. Even in tech fields, mass immigration drives down wages.
     

    BE Mike

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    if we let everyone in who wants to come here, work and save and raise a family and better themselves, like 95% of the people who came to this country from 1500-1930, we will become a 3rd world country?

    That's the craziest thing I think I have ever read.

    if we return the USA to the land of opportunity and get rid of this land of entitlement the people who come here will be exactly the type of people you want.
    Like I said, protecting our way of life is difficult for some people to comprehend. How many people from just, let's say, India, would come here if they could?
     

    ArmyNavyVet

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    Mar 29, 2021
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    I cannot believe anyone in there right mind says it’s ok to let
    COVID positive illegal immigrants cross the border.
    That’s not enough, they then ship them to unsuspecting towns
    all over the US.
    Who would say this is ok to do?
    Meanwhile Americans are now being told they have to mask up outdoors,
    even if your vaccinated?

    Who would vote for this?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    200 showed up in Gary Indiana a few days ago and no one is reporting on it.
     

    stormryder

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    You're proving my point. The incentives were high so people risked it. Nobody went the other way because there was no incentive to do so.

    As far as "worked pretty well", the Berlin Wall had some pretty serious advantages, such as:

    It was about 1.5% the length of the US/Mexico border.
    There was no routine legal traffic for illegal traffic to hide in
    It ran through populated areas
    The "escaping from" side was actively thwarting attempts to dig tunnels, etc.

    Now if you can build and man about 20,000 guard towers, find the roughly 100k citizens it would take to man them who are willing to shoot anyone, man/woman/child, crossing, find a way to get the Mexican side to inform on tunnel builders, and either shut down all legal traffic or find a way to search every truck, train, cargo container, etc coming across, then you might have similar success. It would definitely be a job building project.

    Politics aside, the logistics of having both a border that allows legal traffic and tries to emulate the Berlin Wall/Korean DMZ is impossible and *still* wouldn't work as well as just removing the incentives to come.
    Manning the Wall won't be a problem.
    Here are some ways-
    1)Hire the Unemployed Veterans for the Mission.

    2) Incorporate it into The National Guard and Reserves, Annual Training.(Personal experience, I have been shipped all over the U.S. for 2 weeks Training. So it shouldn't be too big of an xtra cost to do this.)

    All someone needs to do is think outside the box.
     

    stormryder

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    Having had intimate knowledge on the subject, I can only say WOW! I could never even imagine that this country would consider using the communist tactics of the past used in the former east block.
    e3FglGd.jpg
    Who is to say they aren't doing it now?

    Besides, if it works use it.
     

    stormryder

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    There are several Illegals in Batesville right now.
    The Company that a Relative owns, just redid my roof and siding had an entire crew of them.

    Come to find out, there is NO ONE in the area outside of them that are willing to work for the wages offered.

    They rather sit on their butts and wait for that Unemployment check.

    On a side note The Casket Company is begging for workers WAY above Minimum Wage, and not even the temp agencies can bring anyone in. Just before I went on Medical Leave, I heard they were putting up Multi-Lingual signage for Non-English Speakers that they may resort to.
    If they do it will become a nightmare to train them.

    Sorry if I got off Subject.
     

    gregr

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    Jan 1, 2016
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    Flooding the nation with primarily unskilled workers is a not a path to 3rd world status, it's a path to serfdom. Even in tech fields, mass immigration drives down wages.
    Number one, we simply cannot take everyone in, nor allow everyone who wants to come here, to come in. Number two, there are WAY too many who come here, whether legally or illegally, who do not want to assimilate, and THAT`s entirely unacceptable. Period. We are ALREADY WELL on our way to becoming a third world country, and it sickens me.
     

    BE Mike

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    Who is to say they aren't doing it now?

    Besides, if it works use it.
    Manning the Wall won't be a problem.
    Here are some ways-
    1)Hire the Unemployed Veterans for the Mission.

    2) Incorporate it into The National Guard and Reserves, Annual Training.(Personal experience, I have been shipped all over the U.S. for 2 weeks Training. So it shouldn't be too big of an xtra cost to do this.)

    All someone needs to do is think outside the box.
    Obviously, you have never spent time on the Mexican border and don't understand the situation. Military personnel have a completely different mission. Having certain units in a support role, such as engineers, can be helpful. Right now, the biggest problem has been caused by politicians. They have encouraged the flood and have handcuffed the professional people who are trained to do the job.
     

    two70

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    Feb 5, 2016
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    if we let everyone in who wants to come here, work and save and raise a family and better themselves, like 95% of the people who came to this country from 1500-1930, we will become a 3rd world country?

    That's the craziest thing I think I have ever read.

    if we return the USA to the land of opportunity and get rid of this land of entitlement the people who come here will be exactly the type of people you want.
    So where do you live, what are you serving for dinner and what kind of cool guns do you have to temporarily or permanently borrow? Surely someone so open and generous with our countries border would not have any qualms about fellow INGOers showing up and helping themselves to your house, your food, and your stuff, right? After all, it would seem to be kind of hypocritical and selfish to not share your personal stuff while so willingly trying to give away the country.

    We have an immigration process with laws that govern it and have had it for much of our existence as a country. Even prior to formalized immigration laws, immigrants were expected to assimilate into American society. It is only in the last 50-60 years that so many have seen the benefit of ignoring those laws and discouraging assimilation. Border areas in Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico have become crime ridden and dangerous. Hell, you don't even have to focus on illegal immigrants, even in a relatively short time, parts of Minnesota and California have become similar to 3rd world s holes with large numbers of 3rd world immigrants not assimilating.

    You decry entitlement but then act like illegal immigrants, most of which likely make no attempt to immigrate legally, are entitled to jobs and citizenship? Now that is truly crazy.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    All someone needs to do is think outside the box.

    Yeah. That box was thought outside of since at least the 90s with Joint Task Force. I was on the Arizona border as part of JTF-6.

    It doesn't work. It ignores the realities on the ground. If you just want a government jobs creation program, then yup, your idea is genius. If you want to make a real difference in illegal immigration, it's pointless for all the reasons already discussed.
     

    GIJEW

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    Neither party wants to stop illegal immigration. If they did, they could have. You want to stop illegals? Put real teeth into the laws against hiring them. Not fines, that's just a cost of doing business. Jail time. Real penalties for foreign nationals dealing drugs or committing violent crimes would also help, but the vast majority are coming here for the money.
    Yes to all of that, and extend those real penalties to politicians and bureaucrats who aid and abet illegal immigration too!

    If we're going to crack down on an employer for hiring senor "Manuel Labor", what about the IRS that should notice that he's using the same SS# as 10 others, which was issued in 1948 to someone who is now deceased?

    It's not enough that CA and various municipalities won't enforce immigration law (yes, fed vs local/state govt), but they obstruct ICE from arresting foriegn criminals too? Oakland's mayor warning of an ICE sweep is an example.

    Not only is congress all talk and no action regarding securing the border, but team pelosi went to court to prevent Trump from repurposing DoD funds to building walls and fences...because that's relevant to national security

    The senile usurper threatened to ban travel to FL because Desantis wouldn't mandate masks and lockdowns at the same time that his admin WON'T secure the mexican border AND sends illegal aliens (many carrying CV19) on buses and planes across the country.

    At what point should we start talking about treason?

    Stupid question maybe? H Clinton isn't wearing blaze orange pant suits and the FBI leadership responsible for lying to the FISA court and the 'russia hoax'/coup attempt is free, writing books and appearing on cnn&msnbc. Meanwhile, the 1/6 rioters, some of whom are guilty of trespassing, have been in solitary confinement for 6 months.

    May God restore us to being a real republic instead of a banana republic.

    Rant over
     
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