If you’ve chosen not to take a Covid vaccine for whatever reason(s), it may be wise to reassess occasionally.

Hoosierdood

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Don’t let anyone pigeon hole you into anti vax pro vax. I am pro choice! If you want it get it if you don‘t then don’t. My body my choice. Your body your choice. We are fortunate to live in a free country. Don’t give up your rights ever. We need to support each other. If we don’t then who will be there for us when they come for us. History is your friend.
I think there are far more people who feel this way on both sides than what we are led to believe. Then there are some who see another Covid thread and seize the opportunity to show up and pounce on anyone who disagrees with them. Those are the minority. Yet they continue to show up to every single thread.
 

1DOWN4UP

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I'm curious if this new varient from South Africa will influence non-vaxers to get the shots?



I am sorry if I hijacked this thread.The people in Africa were Jabbed. .I got c19 3 months back. I have not jabbed.3 of us spent the day with the Jabbed c19 Carrier in a inclosed truck with the A/C running.#1 guy who had C19 late last year did not get it.Me#2 guy who never had it before but regularly takes Ivermectin got it,but extremely mild case.Back to work in 2 weeks.#3 guy who never had jab got extremely bad case out of it and finally got back to work in 5 weeks. This thing affects everyone differently

Prayers for the OPs friend.
 

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J Galt

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I'm sincerely sorry for your friend.

However, a sample size of one (or numerous anecdotal stories) is not sufficient reason to reassess declining a vaccine that was pushed past the normal vetting process.
 
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hoosierdoc

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Who thought this? Why did they think it?

I’m no doctor or scientist, but my understanding was once a virus exists it will exist forever, possibly going dormant but still existing. Therefore I never had an expectation that humans could wipe it out, hide from it, mask away from it, and did expect it to run its course with little humans could do to stop it.
SARS, MERS, Ebola.

By "go away" i meant not continuously circulate
 

JeepHammer

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Sorry about your friend, but did he have any treatment for covid until he was hospitalized?

It's 2021 and we are almost two years into this mess. There is no "approved" treatment of covid until you're hospitalized, unless you go the Joe Rogan route (which I've heard is very successful - but there's no $$$ in it).

And JeepHammer, you're three jabs in, surely you'll be getting more with this new variant. You have no concerns about the long term effects all these jabs will have on you? Some of which are made by companies who have never made a successful vaccine until now and have liability immunity on this vax?

He spent 2 weeks in intensive care with everything they could do including trying to breath for him, ventilator or whatever they call it.
The VA hospital had every antiviral and threw the kitchen sink at him.

It was his choice.
He *Could* have been a breakthrough case, been in the 1-10% that didn't respond to any particular vaccine.

What's certain is he wasn't the 1-10% that was naturally immune to any given virus, and that's ALL we know.

Either way, veterans lost a trained & qualified/certified advocate that helped/rescued hundreds, got a veterans community village built.

The country lost a decorated veteran that risk his life above & beyond the normal call of duty to his country.

His wife lost a husband, his son lost a father, his 19 month old grandson will never remember his grandfather.

I lost one of the most hard headed, opinionated and giving friends I've ever had.

Considering how this forum politicizes EVERYTHING I debated long & hard about posting anything,
His death shouldn't be fodder for conspiracy theories or speculation,
So don't go there...
 
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firecadet613

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He spent 2 weeks in intensive care with everything they could do including trying to breath for him, ventilator or whatever they call it.
The VA hospital had every antiviral and threw the kitchen sink at him.

It was his choice.
He *Could* have been a breakthrough case, been in the 1-10% that didn't respond to any particular vaccine.

What's certain is he wasn't the 1-10% that was naturally immune to any given virus, and that's ALL we know.

Either way, veterans lost a trained & qualified/certified advocate that helped/rescued hundreds, got a veterans community village built.

The country lost a decorated veteran that risk his life above & beyond the normal call of duty to his country.

His wife lost a husband, his son lost a father, his 19 month old grandson will never remember his grandfather.

I lost one of the most hard headed, opinionated and giving friends I've ever had.

Considering how this forum politicizes EVERYTHING I debated long & hard about posting anything,
His death shouldn't be fodder for conspiracy theories or speculation,
So don't go there...

Dude, @JeepHammer calm down. No one is "going there"....but your non answer and attitude says it all. Unvaxxed and received no treatment until it was too late. I'm not saying anything about HIS choice.

The non treatment until it's too late, THAT IS CRIMINAL. What other illness, virus, etc do we not treat until your hospitalized? In almost two years, the approved treatment is still go home, rest up, go to the ER if you can't breathe or get too bad - and at that point it's too late. No conspiracy theory there...

Sorry for all that have lost loved ones over this...why no one is questioning this lack of treatment is mind boggling. This isn't vax or no vax, this is treatment or lack thereof...
 

JeepHammer

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As for vaccines, I'm pretty sure most of the anti-vaxers are alive now because of vaccines & actual medical science.

I've been vaccinated since birth.
Through 16 years in the Marines, in the worst crap holes in the world exposed to diseases that wiped out sizeable chunks of world population,
And my 130-140 vaccines have been 100% effective since I didn't contract (and die) from any of those diseases.

Now I know the current, entitled, and wholly uneducated anti-vaxer/conspiracy theory bunch ignores the actual facts...

That doesn't change the actual facts.
Pre modern medical science, about 50% of babies through young adults DIED from disease...

That means MORE than 50% of everyone currently alive shouldn't be here since they are offspring of people that shouldn't have survived under natural selection.

Let's not forget mortality averages ages before modern science based medicine...
A VERY large part of you would have died under natural selection,
The 'Average' mortality age being between 38-45 depending on where you lived...

If common infections from food, water, skin breaks, etc didn't kill you,
When your teeth rotted you died of abscess infections.

Also, I don't exclude myself from the 'Deadpool',

I should have died at 13 months when an infant infection spread locally, killed about half of my grade school class.
The only reason I survived was prompt medical intervention to keep fevers down and I.V. fluids to keep me fed & hydrated.

Science saved my life, and since I'm reasonably 'Normal' in mental development, I'm not about to deny the very thing that kept me alive.

Science/modern medicine saved me again when I went down in a helicopter crash with a bullet through the lungs,
And yet again when undetected shrapnel cut my guts to pieces giving me sepsis (systemic blood poisoning).

.......

Then there is the propaganda progression...

First, there was nothing to worry about, it's not going to get to the US, ignore it.

Then finally admitted that it was in the US, but it wasn't anything but 'The Flu'.

Then it was skewing the numbers game,
Comparing deaths to the entire population of the US that was uninfected (at the time) instead of comparing deaths to the number of confirmed infections.

Then it was skewing the numbers of infected saying everything was a false positive...

When it could no longer be denied the infection was killing people with overflowing morgues,
It was arguing what people died of...

Then it was somehow an attack on free speech/civil liberties to try and stem the spread of a MEDICAL ISSUE, a disease epidemic...

When the vaccine came out, and those said same conspiracy theory spreaders rushed to secretly get the vaccine, they continued to spread completely debunked garbage about vaccines...

All the while taking in money for spreading the crap about vaccines, and still are.
Simply greed as a motivation, and they don't care how many die,
Its sociopathic behavior for profit.

Its a systematic attack on common sense, the education system, actual science, even basic math...

As more people die, the vaccination rate goes up.
The general population has to be directly confronted by death to do anything for themselves,
That also means more people have to contract the virus before the obvious becomes clear, giving the virus a pathway to mutate...

Mutations can go either way,
More, or less deadly.
Fewer hosts, less chance of spread, less mutations...
Protections, including protective gear and vaccines accomplishes the goal of less infections/mutations.

It's common sense, but there isn't much common sense in anti-social media...

I can't help but point out the same people propagating the conspiracy theories ate tide pods and other stupid crap they saw on the internet...
 

firecadet613

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Dec 24, 2012
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As for vaccines, I'm pretty sure most of the anti-vaxers are alive now because of vaccines & actual medical science.

I've been vaccinated since birth.
Through 16 years in the Marines, in the worst crap holes in the world exposed to diseases that wiped out sizeable chunks of world population,
And my 130-140 vaccines have been 100% effective since I didn't contract (and die) from any of those diseases.

Now I know the current, entitled, and wholly uneducated anti-vaxer/conspiracy theory bunch ignores the actual facts...

That doesn't change the actual facts.
Pre modern medical science, about 50% of babies through young adults DIED from disease...

That means MORE than 50% of everyone currently alive shouldn't be here since they are offspring of people that shouldn't have survived under natural selection.

Let's not forget mortality averages ages before modern science based medicine...
A VERY large part of you would have died under natural selection,
The 'Average' mortality age being between 38-45 depending on where you lived...

If common infections from food, water, skin breaks, etc didn't kill you,
When your teeth rotted you died of abscess infections.

Also, I don't exclude myself from the 'Deadpool',

I should have died at 13 months when an infant infection spread locally, killed about half of my grade school class.
The only reason I survived was prompt medical intervention to keep fevers down and I.V. fluids to keep me fed & hydrated.

Science saved my life, and since I'm reasonably 'Normal' in mental development, I'm not about to deny the very thing that kept me alive.

Science/modern medicine saved me again when I went down in a helicopter crash with a bullet through the lungs,
And yet again when undetected shrapnel cut my guts to pieces giving me sepsis (systemic blood poisoning).

.......

Then there is the propaganda progression...

First, there was nothing to worry about, it's not going to get to the US, ignore it.

Then finally admitted that it was in the US, but it wasn't anything but 'The Flu'.

Then it was skewing the numbers game,
Comparing deaths to the entire population of the US that was uninfected (at the time) instead of comparing deaths to the number of confirmed infections.

Then it was skewing the numbers of infected saying everything was a false positive...

When it could no longer be denied the infection was killing people with overflowing morgues,
It was arguing what people died of...

Then it was somehow an attack on free speech/civil liberties to try and stem the spread of a MEDICAL ISSUE, a disease epidemic...

When the vaccine came out, and those said same conspiracy theory spreaders rushed to secretly get the vaccine, they continued to spread completely debunked garbage about vaccines...

All the while taking in money for spreading the crap about vaccines, and still are.
Simply greed as a motivation, and they don't care how many die,
Its sociopathic behavior for profit.

Its a systematic attack on common sense, the education system, actual science, even basic math...

As more people die, the vaccination rate goes up.
The general population has to be directly confronted by death to do anything for themselves,
That also means more people have to contract the virus before the obvious becomes clear, giving the virus a pathway to mutate...

Mutations can go either way,
More, or less deadly.
Fewer hosts, less chance of spread, less mutations...
Protections, including protective gear and vaccines accomplishes the goal of less infections/mutations.

It's common sense, but there isn't much common sense in anti-social media...

I can't help but point out the same people propagating the conspiracy theories ate tide pods and other stupid crap they saw on the internet...
Wow. Much too long and not even relevant.

Again, @JeepHammer you ignored my question and statement. My reply had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VACCINE - it was about the lack of treatment until it was too late. What illnesses do we not begin to treat until you're in intensive care? At that point you're already gone and I'm dumbfounded if you don't understand that.

And at this point, calling someone who has had EVERY vaccine up until this covid "vax", an anti-vaxxer....well I'm sure most would agree that statement would make one look pretty damn ignorant....

An anti-vaxxer is one against vaccines...and since they had to change the definition of "vaccine" to get this covid vax to fit....what's that tell you?
 

Hoosierdood

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Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Nov 2, 2010
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As for vaccines, I'm pretty sure most of the anti-vaxers are alive now because of vaccines & actual medical science.

I've been vaccinated since birth.
Through 16 years in the Marines, in the worst crap holes in the world exposed to diseases that wiped out sizeable chunks of world population,
And my 130-140 vaccines have been 100% effective since I didn't contract (and die) from any of those diseases.

Now I know the current, entitled, and wholly uneducated anti-vaxer/conspiracy theory bunch ignores the actual facts...

That doesn't change the actual facts.
Pre modern medical science, about 50% of babies through young adults DIED from disease...

That means MORE than 50% of everyone currently alive shouldn't be here since they are offspring of people that shouldn't have survived under natural selection.

Let's not forget mortality averages ages before modern science based medicine...
A VERY large part of you would have died under natural selection,
The 'Average' mortality age being between 38-45 depending on where you lived...

If common infections from food, water, skin breaks, etc didn't kill you,
When your teeth rotted you died of abscess infections.

Also, I don't exclude myself from the 'Deadpool',

I should have died at 13 months when an infant infection spread locally, killed about half of my grade school class.
The only reason I survived was prompt medical intervention to keep fevers down and I.V. fluids to keep me fed & hydrated.

Science saved my life, and since I'm reasonably 'Normal' in mental development, I'm not about to deny the very thing that kept me alive.

Science/modern medicine saved me again when I went down in a helicopter crash with a bullet through the lungs,
And yet again when undetected shrapnel cut my guts to pieces giving me sepsis (systemic blood poisoning).

.......

Then there is the propaganda progression...

First, there was nothing to worry about, it's not going to get to the US, ignore it.

Then finally admitted that it was in the US, but it wasn't anything but 'The Flu'.

Then it was skewing the numbers game,
Comparing deaths to the entire population of the US that was uninfected (at the time) instead of comparing deaths to the number of confirmed infections.

Then it was skewing the numbers of infected saying everything was a false positive...

When it could no longer be denied the infection was killing people with overflowing morgues,
It was arguing what people died of...

Then it was somehow an attack on free speech/civil liberties to try and stem the spread of a MEDICAL ISSUE, a disease epidemic...

When the vaccine came out, and those said same conspiracy theory spreaders rushed to secretly get the vaccine, they continued to spread completely debunked garbage about vaccines...

All the while taking in money for spreading the crap about vaccines, and still are.
Simply greed as a motivation, and they don't care how many die,
Its sociopathic behavior for profit.

Its a systematic attack on common sense, the education system, actual science, even basic math...

As more people die, the vaccination rate goes up.
The general population has to be directly confronted by death to do anything for themselves,
That also means more people have to contract the virus before the obvious becomes clear, giving the virus a pathway to mutate...

Mutations can go either way,
More, or less deadly.
Fewer hosts, less chance of spread, less mutations...
Protections, including protective gear and vaccines accomplishes the goal of less infections/mutations.

It's common sense, but there isn't much common sense in anti-social media...

I can't help but point out the same people propagating the conspiracy theories ate tide pods and other stupid crap they saw on the internet...
Sometimes I wonder why you even bother leaving your ivory tower to come mingle with us common folk.
Don't break a hip trying to come down off that high horse.
 

phylodog

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Mar 7, 2008
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He spent 2 weeks in intensive care with everything they could do including trying to breath for him, ventilator or whatever they call it.
The VA hospital had every antiviral and threw the kitchen sink at him.

It was his choice.
He *Could* have been a breakthrough case, been in the 1-10% that didn't respond to any particular vaccine.

What's certain is he wasn't the 1-10% that was naturally immune to any given virus, and that's ALL we know.

Either way, veterans lost a trained & qualified/certified advocate that helped/rescued hundreds, got a veterans community village built.

The country lost a decorated veteran that risk his life above & beyond the normal call of duty to his country.

His wife lost a husband, his son lost a father, his 19 month old grandson will never remember his grandfather.

I lost one of the most hard headed, opinionated and giving friends I've ever had.

Considering how this forum politicizes EVERYTHING I debated long & hard about posting anything,
His death shouldn't be fodder for conspiracy theories or speculation,
So don't go there...
Sincerely sorry for your loss, he was obviously a good man.
 

mbills2223

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Dec 16, 2011
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I wonder if it's like hurricanes, you know, they already have all the variant names lined up and a schedule of when each will "appear"?

Not a conspiracist but dayum!
I mean they just use the Greek alphabet for common name, and a specific naming system for more scientific nomenclature. Viruses mutate, that's just part of the life cycle of a virus...nothing more than survival of the fittest. As doc mentioned earlier in the thread...in the long term/big picture, a virus will generally mutate to be more transmissible but less lethal, so as to preserve itself. A virus that kills its host too efficiently will burn out rapidly and thus die out itself.
 

mbills2223

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Not big picture thinking, there would be a tremendous value in knowing if this was man created gain of function in a lab vs natural gain of function from a wet market bat…
True...Maybe I down played it more than I should have. Well, I definitely did. I do think it's important to try and determine origin, but certainty in that may take years longer, and by that time it hopefully will not matter as far as dealing with the virus is concerned.
 

tbhausen

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Not really what this thread’s about (no updates on our friend today, which is almost a relief because I’d rather have no news than the news I’m so fearful of—almost like when the phone would ring too early when dad was off racing), but…

Edit: deleted, because that wasn’t what the thread’s about.
 
Last edited:

bobzilla

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There is absolutely no discussion, much less action, on treatment protocols before folks get so sick the are ready to admit to the hospital…
Just like there’s no discussion on natural immunity. And no discussion of anything but what they’ve deemed “science”.

And JH needs to step the F off. Call me anti vax one more ****ing time and I’m going to ducking lose it. Just because I am not getting it because A.) I have already gotten it and now have a decent chance of surviving it a second time and 2.) the heart risks for myself with my history and family background is a real issue. What might be less than 1% for someone else is higher for us. I’m not telling anyone not to get jabbed, it’s none of my business and people need to make their own informed decisions on their health.

Sadly people die every day. Around 8000 every single day in the US. That’s 8k brothers, sisters, wives, grandparents, parents, aunts/uncles etc that their families will. Or get to spend time with again. It’s terrible but it’s a fact of life. Rather than focusing on the death I prefer to focus on our time with them. The fun memories. The stories that we tell keeps them alive to us in our hearts. That’s how I prefer to deal with it.
 

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