If you’ve chosen not to take a Covid vaccine for whatever reason(s), it may be wise to reassess occasionally.

buckwacker

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I’m in agreement that the vaccine doesn’t prevent spread. I just don’t think this cruise ship is the case in point. A bunch of people locked on a boat for a week, sharing the same air systems, eating at the same couple restaurants, and attending the same shows. That’s really not representative of the US population. I would have expected the number of cases to be higher than 10. That’s 0.33% of the passengers after being locked on a boat in close quarters for a week.
I didn't say it was representative. You did say 10 out of 3000 wasn't an outbreak. I'm sure many more than 10 will test positive, as I'm sure the cruise lasted no more than 10 days, incubation times being what they are and all, but let's assume it will be only 10. 10/3000 is .333% and that percentage of the U.S. population is north of 1.1 million. For the sake of simplicity, we'll say we've been dealing with covid for 18 months, so 18 months x 30 days is just north of 500 days. If the cruise lasted 10 days, we've had covid in the U.S. for the length of 50 cruises. 50 x 1.1 million is just north of 50 million cases which is about the number of cases we've experienced. I'm just saying if those 10 cases on the cruise ship aren't an outbreak, why the **** have we gone all medical authoritarian for "just a handful of cases"?
 

nonobaddog

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Do you think a lot of 80 year olds are in the cruise ship? A lot of chronically ill people? If you understood what I was saying, you would've realized it was an opportunity for you to point out that the outbreak on the ship would've actually been much worse if it were representative of the US population, but you obviously missed that. All that aside, the point I was making in reality is that anytime I say virtually anything, someone will come along to say it's a fallacy, or I'm obfuscating, or maybe strawmaning. You have, once again, missed the point. I assume it's because you are just too focused on arguing and being angry.
Maybe it would help if you stopped saying fallacies and obfuscating and strawmanning? :)
 

buckwacker

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Do you think a lot of 80 year olds are in the cruise ship? A lot of chronically ill people? If you understood what I was saying, you would've realized it was an opportunity for you to point out that the outbreak on the ship would've actually been much worse if it were representative of the US population, but you obviously missed that. All that aside, the point I was making in reality is that anytime I say virtually anything, someone will come along to say it's a fallacy, or I'm obfuscating, or maybe strawmaning. You have, once again, missed the point. I assume it's because you are just too focused on arguing and being angry.
So what was the point of your comment?
 

buckwacker

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That you can't compare a cruise ship outbreak and the general population, as I previously stated.
I can if I'm demonstrating what's considered an "outbreak" with numbers we're supposedly all familiar with. With numbers we've been told constitute a pandemic, that we need to surrender our freedom to contain.
 

mbills2223

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I can if I'm demonstrating what's considered an "outbreak" with numbers we're supposedly all familiar with. With numbers we've been told constitute a pandemic, that we need to surrender our freedom to contain.
No, you can't. That's the entire point. It's apples to oranges. I think you're a bit out of your depth if you can't understand how a cruise ship is entirely different from an entire country.
 

mbills2223

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I can if I'm demonstrating what's considered an "outbreak" with numbers we're supposedly all familiar with. With numbers we've been told constitute a pandemic, that we need to surrender our freedom to contain.
I locked ten people in a house for a week and they all got influenza, ergo the entire country is going to get influenza. That's the logic you are currently using.
 

buckwacker

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No, you can't. That's the entire point. It's apples to oranges. I think you're a bit out of your depth if you can't understand how a cruise ship is entirely different from an entire country.
This is why people accuse you of obfuscating. Condescension is also a compensation mechanism generally employed by those think they're more intelligent than they really are.
 

mbills2223

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This is why people accuse you of obfuscating. Condescension is also a compensation mechanism generally employed by those think they're more intelligent than they really are.
I'm not condescending whatsoever, I'm evaluating the facts in front of me. There is nothing wrong with not understanding virology or immunology, most do not.

I get accused of obfuscating when I make a valid point or respond in the same copout form that others do to make a point. I know exactly how intelligent (or not) I am, so nothing to compensate for there.
 

buckwacker

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I'm not condescending whatsoever, I'm evaluating the facts in front of me. There is nothing wrong with not understanding virology or immunology, most do not.

I get accused of obfuscating when I make a valid point or respond in the same copout form that others do to make a point. I know exactly how intelligent (or not) I am, so nothing to compensate for there.
"Maybe you're out of your depth" is a condescending appeal to authority. It's compensation.

Firstly, you've inferred an argument I never made. I never claimed a cruise ship and the U.S. were identical environments when evaluating how a virus spreads. My point was simply about definitions of the word outbreak. I think you initially thought 10 out of 3000 was no big deal, but got defensive when I pointed out it wasn't much different than the percentages we've wrecked the country over.
 

Hoosierdood

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No, you can't. That's the entire point. It's apples to oranges. I think you're a bit out of your depth if you can't understand how a cruise ship is entirely different from an entire country.
No, I think you're not understanding. What number or percentage of a given population constitutes an outbreak? I believe that's the point being made here. Whether it is a nursing home, prison, small town, large city, or the country as a whole. There has to be a criteria where one would say "This is considered an outbreak." The comparison that .33% of the cruise ship within 10 days is a higher infection rate than the country as a whole, may qualify for that criteria.
 

mbills2223

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No, I think you're not understanding. What number or percentage of a given population constitutes an outbreak? I believe that's the point being made here. Whether it is a nursing home, prison, small town, large city, or the country as a whole. There has to be a criteria where one would say "This is considered an outbreak." The comparison that .33% of the cruise ship within 10 days is a higher infection rate than the country as a whole, may qualify for that criteria.
That wasn't why the cruise ship was brought up. It was brought up to pretend I'm an idiot and poke fun at my references to math when discussing that, statistically speaking,100% vaccination could end the pandemic.
 

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