I have been reinforcing my decision to never again fly in an airplane.

[Jaybird1980]

The first time I flew I was about 7 or 8 years old, so around 1971 or or so. It was a fun and exciting experience. My mom made me dress well. Everyone was dressed well and were happy and friendly. Pilot invited me to the cockpit and gave me plastic pilot wings.

I joined the Army in 1984, spent 22 years in, so I got to fly in a lot of commercial airlines besides the fixed and rotary wing military aircraft. Over time, I got to see the deterioration in the commercial air experience. Greyhound of the skies indeed. It became like a gun show. Poorly dressed, unbathed, unfriendly people.

Then, after 9/11, TSA decided to add to the distatefullnes of the experience. I flew one time after 9/11, out of necessity, and I vowed to never fly again.

Well, what I have been doing to reinforce that decision is bingeing the TV show "Air Disasters" Holy f, their reenactments are wild. You can quote me statistics about how it it safer than some other forms of travel. I don't care. Sure, I may die in a car accident, but it wont be plunging to the planet from several thousand feet, inverted, at 400 miles an hour, with minutes to consider how I'm about to become splattered across the landscape and indistinguishable from the remains of the other poor souls on the plane with me.

I can't imagine any scenario where I ever get on an aircraft again.

I hope you never watch Kitchen Nightmares.

 

[BugI02]

The first time I flew I was about 7 or 8 years old, so around 1971 or or so. It was a fun and exciting experience. My mom made me dress well. Everyone was dressed well and were happy and friendly. Pilot invited me to the cockpit and gave me plastic pilot wings.

I joined the Army in 1984, spent 22 years in, so I got to fly in a lot of commercial airlines besides the fixed and rotary wing military aircraft. Over time, I got to see the deterioration in the commercial air experience. Greyhound of the skies indeed. It became like a gun show. Poorly dressed, unbathed, unfriendly people.

Then, after 9/11, TSA decided to add to the distatefullnes of the experience. I flew one time after 9/11, out of necessity, and I vowed to never fly again.

Well, what I have been doing to reinforce that decision is bingeing the TV show "Air Disasters" Holy f, their reenactments are wild. You can quote me statistics about how it it safer than some other forms of travel. I don't care. Sure, I may die in a car accident, but it wont be plunging to the planet from several thousand feet, inverted, at 400 miles an hour, with minutes to consider how I'm about to become splattered across the landscape and indistinguishable from the remains of the other poor souls on the plane with me.

I can't imagine any scenario where I ever get on an aircraft again.

LOVE that series, by the way

If you need further reinforcement, consider that quite a few of the top code share airlines, the ones running smaller aircraft under [airline name] express banners, are experiencing a pilot shortage

Where once a pilot would have needed 1200 - 1500 hours and an ATP just to get in the left seat, they are currently offering $100,000 signing bonuses and accepting total time as low as 950 hours as long as it was accumulated in part 121 operations (scheduled air service). Someone operating a fixed gear, single engine turbo prop 4 to 6 hours per night, 4 days per week, for a freight company contracted to UPS or FedEx or USPS could hit that mark in a bit more than 6 to 9 months assuming 300 hours when they started

It will be explained that those pilots will go into the right seat/copilot position, what won't be mentioned is that relatively low time co-pilots will be promoted to captain under that plan. Imagine if that Envoy 175 out of ORD, where the pilot dropped dead just after takeoff from a very busy congested airport, had had a low time co-pilot in the right seat who was new to that aircraft rather than an experienced check airman

If you have watched a lot of those episodes, you will have seen how unfamiliarity with an aircraft's systems so often prevents recognition of the real problem until it is too late or pilot fatigue and overwork dulls their intelligence to the same effect

You will not hear those code share airlines mention that copilot pay was so low in some cases ($18-19000 per year to start) that people just starting out in were living out of their vehicles in domiciles with high cost of living and many pilots lost interest in starting out in those seats, nor will you hear about how ruthless the majors were in wringing every drop of financial concession out of their junior partners and thus being arguably the root cause of the problem

Rant = off

 

[BugI02]

I generally let Hollywood influence my life decisions, too.

You disappoint me, av11. Perhaps you haven't seen any of the programs. They are based on the evidence developed by the actual accident investigations and merely re-enact crew interactions with actors and a/c actions with high resolution digital sims. The facts of the presentation are not in dispute

I have never flown for a living but have a number of friends who do. I am quite familiar with some of the accidents I have seen profiled and there has been no dramatic license used. The only objection I could perhaps see is when witness testimony, as presented to the NTSB or the investigatory organization, is used to plumb the supposed state of mind of the flight crew when CVR records are non-existent or unrecoverable

 

[BugI02]

I have no problems flying. I don't bother letting TV shows, movies or anything else dissuade me. I don't fly often, but when I need to go somewhere quickly, or that is a large distance, I have no issues getting on a plane.

This is also true for me. I'm not driving to California or Florida - ever, but I'm still a big fan of the series. I never had much faith that every cockpit crew is nothing but steely eyed professionals at the top of their game. I know too many pilots

 

[avboiler11]

The regional airline "pilot shortage" came about in part due to the requirement for all 121 pilots to have an ATP certificate.

Even with the bonuses and substantial pay increases that fee-for-departure regional airlines are throwing around right now, an ATP or R-ATP is still required before turning your first wheel. You also have to have 1000 hours of 121 experience before upgrading to Captain.

Airlines in the United States are EXTREMELY safe, the safest they've been in history, especially considering the number of flights and passengers today vs. 10-20-30+ years ago.

 

[MRockwell]

If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
-except in my Cessna

 

[avboiler11]

You disappoint me, av11. Perhaps you haven't seen any of the programs.

So sorry to disappoint you...
I have a number of episodes, and I'm quite familiar with a couple featured accidents.

I'm not saying it is a "bad" show, it has surprisingly specific details at times and sometimes features very knowledgable SMEs.

What I'm saying is it is a dramatic reenactment for television that can lead casual viewers toward a particular conclusion that isn't actually supported by an NTSB Public Docket or Final Report. Case in point - OP saying the show is going to cause him to not fly airlines again. There's a number of legitimate reasons why people might not want to fly, but this show ain't one of them.

I have never flown for a living but have a number of friends who do. I am quite familiar with some of the accidents I have seen profiled and there has been no dramatic license used. The only objection I could perhaps see is when witness testimony, as presented to the NTSB or the investigatory organization, is used to plumb the supposed state of mind of the flight crew when CVR records are non-existent or unrecoverable

This is closer to my concern...

I do fly for a living, so I likely have a more discerning eye and am more sensitive toward what is "hollywood" filler on this topic and what are actual/likely/probable actions or exchanges.

IMO, take this show for what it is - entertainment that describes a real event, not a documentary.

 

[Route 45]

This thread reminds me of this Halloween costume. Except with airplanes.

 

[BigRed]

This thread reminds me of this Halloween costume. Except with airplanes.



View attachment 238675

"Can't park Ford Super Duty" reminds me of a time in ****cago.

I was waiting in the parking lot for some folks to return.

There was a lifted Super Duty in a parking spot. Some hipster came along and "boxed it in" by parking close to his rear....while laughing.

Good 'ol boy comes out and gets in his truck looking like he does not care.

Backs into the front of a Civic, pushes it back a few feet, and pulls on out of the parking lot leaving the front fascia from the Honda torn off and laying on the ground. Guy drove off like nothing happened.

I laughed.

 

[BugI02]

This thread reminds me of this Halloween costume. Except with airplanes.

 

[Sigblaster]

You disappoint me, av11. Perhaps you haven't seen any of the programs. They are based on the evidence developed by the actual accident investigations and merely re-enact crew interactions with actors and a/c actions with high resolution digital sims. The facts of the presentation are not in dispute

I have never flown for a living but have a number of friends who do. I am quite familiar with some of the accidents I have seen profiled and there has been no dramatic license used. The only objection I could perhaps see is when witness testimony, as presented to the NTSB or the investigatory organization, is used to plumb the supposed state of mind of the flight crew when CVR records are non-existent or unrecoverable

Right on target, Bug. These episodes are not Hollywood fiction. They are reenactments of real world events. They highlight the many problems with the airline industry. I read about every incident as I watch the episode.

Take this one for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAROM_Flight_371

Here is an aircraft with a known dangerous issue that mechanics were unable to correctly diagnose and repair despite multiple attempts. Yet, the airline continued to keep the aircraft in service. How many of the passengers would have gotten on the plane that day if they knew about this issue?

As I said, this show only reinforces my decision. I made this decision long ago, based mainly on the decreased quality of the experience. Fat people oozing into my seating space, decreased leg room, rude people, smelly people, and then TSA nonsense.

The worst thing the airlines ever did was make air travel "affordable", so the people who should have stayed on Greyhound started infesting airplanes. Cost cutting led to poor maintenance standards, cramming more people into the plane, and lower quality pilots.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The worst thing the airlines ever did was make air travel "affordable", so the people who should have stayed on Greyhound started infesting airplanes.

Marie Antoinette, is that you?

 

[Route 45]

Marie Antoinette, is that you?

"Let them eat little bags of peanuts."

 

[bobzilla]

Right on target, Bug. These episodes are not Hollywood fiction. They are reenactments of real world events. They highlight the many problems with the airline industry. I read about every incident as I watch the episode.

Take this one for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAROM_Flight_371

Here is an aircraft with a known dangerous issue that mechanics were unable to correctly diagnose and repair despite multiple attempts. Yet, the airline continued to keep the aircraft in service. How many of the passengers would have gotten on the plane that day if they knew about this issue?

As I said, this show only reinforces my decision. I made this decision long ago, based mainly on the decreased quality of the experience. Fat people oozing into my seating space, decreased leg room, rude people, smelly people, and then TSA nonsense.

The worst thing the airlines ever did was make air travel "affordable", so the people who should have stayed on Greyhound started infesting airplanes. Cost cutting led to poor maintenance standards, cramming more people into the plane, and lower quality pilots.

I mean hey, it's your choice. We choose to go out and see the world and enjoy our lives doing the fun things we like and not focusing on the negatives. If you don't ever want to leave the continental US good for you. I do. I've seen all 50 states and now I want to go see other parts of the world and its culture.

 

[bobzilla]

"Let them eat little bags of peanuts."

been a while since you were on a plane I see. Now its allergen free pretzels because peanut allergies.

 

[Route 45]

been a while since you were on a plane I see. Now its allergen free pretzels because peanut allergies.

Now thinking about it, United had these the last time I flew, which was a few years ago. Much better than peanuts.



Not sure what they are serving the rancid poors on Las Vegas redeye flights these days.

 

[indyblue]

I enjoy the show for what it is, mainly because I like to see how they solve some of the mysteries. I just saw the episode about the Reno air race crash coming down to one 26 year old locknut failure on a strut and am curious to see what they find for the recent NV airshow crash.

I flew (as passenger) a lot before 9/11 and have always enjoyed flying, modern aircraft are truly modern marvels and love window seats and watching the ground go by underneath. I will still fly if I really have to, but the process and atmosphere of commercial airports and airlines has gotten very un-enjoyable. I'm never in a hurry to board and usually just wait at the gate unitl the last folks have already boarded regardless of my "group" designation.

One conclusion from that show is that most crashes are not simply ONE thing that goes wrong, it's almost always a whole string of unfortunate events converging that cause them. Seems like the most egregious problems happen outside of the US, some countries do not have the standards we do.

It amazes me how many older aircraft are still being flown after so many decades without problems or incident. Each plane has thousands to millions of parts, how could anyone possibly check them all? There are bound to be some hidden defects somewhere.

With today's cost conscious companies (profit over all else) and shortage of pilots I'm not sure I want to fly as much as I once did. I won't ride on a subway because of the way people behave when crammed together and planes are now like subways in the sky.

 

[bobzilla]

Now thinking about it, United had these the last time I flew, which was a few years ago. Much better than peanuts.

View attachment 238684

Not sure what they are serving the rancid poors on Las Vegas redeye flights these days.

you get a mostly pressurized cabin and you should be thankful you get that you poor people. Shouldn't even be allowed on airplanes.

 

[chipbennett]

"Let them eat little bags of peanuts."

Not anymore. Almonds. Maybe pistachios. But no more peanuts.

 

[JCSR]

Now thinking about it, United had these the last time I flew, which was a few years ago. Much better than peanuts.

View attachment 238684

Not sure what they are serving the rancid poors on Las Vegas redeye flights these days.

FYI You can score big boxes of Stroopwafels at Cosco!