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  • HeadlessRoland

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    Ok, I'll play.

    apparently OP doesn't see the difference between OCing a pistol (something people do everyday all across this state and others for personal protection) and OCing long guns with the intent to either force people to agree with gun rights activists or ban guns from their establishments. How's that long gun OC working out for us again?

    Ask Titanium_Frost how OCing long arms can get you paid.
     

    cce1302

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    Ok, I'll play.

    apparently OP doesn't see the difference between OCing a pistol (something people do everyday all across this state and others for personal protection) and OCing long guns with the intent to either force people to agree with gun rights activists or ban guns from their establishments. How's that long gun OC working out for us again?

    Apparently you get your information on Open Carry Texas events and intent from your mom, Shannon Watts.

    How's that appeasement policy working out for you?
     

    g00n24

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    Apparently you get your information on Open Carry Texas events and intent from your mom, Shannon Watts.

    How's that appeasement policy working out for you?

    I don't appease, but I also don't purposely provoke people to get a rise out of them either. Perhaps doing as you, and other regular OCers do, and continue to OC handguns until that is more widely accepted before moving on to long guns would be a wiser decision. Or choosing venues where political statements are normally made to OC long guns, like we did at the statehouse last year would be a wiser decision. The decision to go to private businesses and abruptly force people to accept a foreign-to-them concept is not helping our cause.

    There is a difference in what a perfect world is and what reality is, so far these antics are making a perfect world less attainable. Perhaps different strategies would be a better idea.

    And I read that letter you posted from OCT. I don't see how they could get kicked out of the Chilis like the video showed happening if they called ahead to everywhere they were going.
     

    SteveM4A1

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    I don't appease, but I also don't purposely provoke people to get a rise out of them either. Perhaps doing as you, and other regular OCers do, and continue to OC handguns until that is more widely accepted before moving on to long guns would be a wiser decision. Or choosing venues where political statements are normally made to OC long guns, like we did at the statehouse last year would be a wiser decision. The decision to go to private businesses and abruptly force people to accept a foreign-to-them concept is not helping our cause.

    They can't OC handguns, that is the problem. Texas is not gun friendly towards handgun open carriers.
     

    cce1302

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    I typed it in response to this thread but the thread got locked and the poster banned before I could post it, so I thought it would generate constructive discussion.

    Turns out-excluding a very few inane posts-I was right.
     

    g00n24

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    They can't OC handguns, that is the problem. Texas is not gun friendly towards handgun open carriers.
    Ok, but that isn't really the point I've been trying to make. Sucks for them, but what progress have they seen from doing what they are doing? That is an honest question, have they been winning in the political arena or not? I don't follow events in Texas.

    I'm all for them doing events and even the handing out Constitutions thing. These kind of actions raise awareness. My point is to leave private businesses out of it, and being provocative is not helping us out. I know...I know they are just trying to get something to eat after an event. Well it sounds like they screwed up a few too many times and didn't call ahead at a few places.

    It's not just the OCT group that is screwing stuff up. Remember the whole Starbucks debacle that got all this crap started? I believe that happened all over the place. These actions are not working, clearly, it's like trying to get rid of a headache by smashing your head into a brick wall over and over again.
     

    cce1302

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    Ok, but that isn't really the point I've been trying to make. Sucks for them, but what progress have they seen from doing what they are doing? That is an honest question, have they been winning in the political arena or not? I don't follow events in Texas.

    I'm all for them doing events and even the handing out Constitutions thing. These kind of actions raise awareness. My point is to leave private businesses out of it, and being provocative is not helping us out. I know...I know they are just trying to get something to eat after an event. Well it sounds like they screwed up a few too many times and didn't call ahead at a few places.

    It's not just the OCT group that is screwing stuff up. Remember the whole Starbucks debacle that got all this crap started? I believe that happened all over the place. These actions are not working, clearly, it's like trying to get rid of a headache by smashing your head into a brick wall over and over again.


    Might be a good time to delete a post where you just admitted complete ignorance of a topic you've been trying to pass expert commentary/advice on...
     

    snowwalker

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    Really, how does a group (or just one) carrying long guns to a store help our cause? cce1302, do you have an answer or am I asking an inane question? How does this logic work and can you or anyone give a common sense answer to such an asinine action?
     

    SteveM4A1

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    Really, how does a group (or just one) carrying long guns to a store help our cause? cce1302, do you have an answer or am I asking an inane question? How does this logic work and can you or anyone give a common sense answer to such an asinine action?

    It is merely a tactic used to get people used to seeing firearms other than those seen in the media. The more an individual sees a person with a firearm in a positive light, the more they can be conditioned to not mind seeing visible firearms. Of course, the obvious question is, is this a positive interaction? The OCT group seem to be going about it in the right way in my opinion, if their statements are true. Calling ahead of time and asking permission, and even having a police escort, etc. Obviously, I haven't been at a location where they have done this, so I can't speak to the validity of their statements.
     

    g00n24

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    Might be a good time to delete a post where you just admitted complete ignorance of a topic you've been trying to pass expert commentary/advice on...
    The only thing I admitted ignorance on was what progress they have made in Texas. I don't really give a crap about Texas. What those asshats are doing is affecting us on a national scale. So my question is...have their tactics helped or hurt them at a more local level? Because it is only hurting us on a national one. Keep it up boys!
     
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    snowwalker

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    SteveM4A1, that is why I phrased the question in such a simple way. Take OCT, Texas, etc. out of it, carrying a long gun in a store makes sense how and benefits us how? We can OC here, as the OP does, but a long gun is just asinine and the results prove so by retailers REACTION. How many times does it take to hit yourself with a hammer to realize it's not a good idea?
     

    SteveM4A1

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    carrying a long gun in a store makes sense how and benefits us how?
    That is really dependent upon each situation. It may not benefit us as a community if one person openly carries a long gun into a store, but it could benefit that individual.

    We can OC here, as the OP does, but a long gun is just asinine and the results prove so by retailers REACTION. How many times does it take to hit yourself with a hammer to realize it's not a good idea?

    Retailers' reactions are hardly proof of anything, other than they want to make money. I don't blame them either.
     

    snowwalker

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    The hammer analogy really applies here. Retailers are being turned off by it, it effects all of us, thus carrying long guns at retailers is proof that it is asinine. Simple logic. Hello, any body home? See what I did there?
     

    rob63

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    To the OP, I am very, very much against the whole idea of the OC of rifles, but I have absolutely no problem at all with what you did. I don't think OC of a pistol hurts us in any way. I'm sorry that you thought any of the comments about OC of rifles were directed at you.

    There is simply a huge difference in perception between carrying a pistol and carrying a rifle. A pistol is, by it's very nature, a defensive weapon. A rifle is an offensive weapon. Obviously, each of them can be used either way and we all know criminals use pistols far more than rifles. However, a pistol is something you carry because you are prepared for the possibility of trouble while a rifle is something you carry because you are expecting trouble.

    Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against rifles. In fact, I collect military rifles. Have a bunch of them. However, I most certainly do not want to live anywhere where it becomes normal to see people walking around carrying rifles! Do you honestly believe that the average American is going to simply accept that it is normal to carry military style rifles around? You really believe that? If so, you are loony. Nothing will get rifles banned faster than to start carrying them around everywhere. It is hard enough to convince the average person that I should be allowed to own an AR-15 for target shooting. Ain't no way I am going to be able to convince anybody that I should be allowed to own an AR-15 for carrying around to restaurants.

    If we insist on OC of rifles everywhere we go, then someday we will all be sitting around wearing our "Guns and Coffee" t-shirts wishing we had our guns back and wondering where it all went wrong.
     
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    cce1302

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    The hammer analogy really applies here.
    No it doesn't. Not even a little bit.
    Retailers are being turned off by it, it effects all of us, thus carrying long guns at retailers is proof that it is asinine.
    No they aren't. The retailers don't give a rat's back half. You'd know that if you weren't taking in all of your information from the NRA and Shannon Watts. I know she's family, but she's lying.
    Simple logic. Hello, any body home? See what I did there?
    it's perfectly clear what you're doing.

    To the OP, I am very, very much against the whole idea of the OC of rifles, but I have absolutely no problem at all with what you did. I don't think OC of a pistol hurts us in any way. I'm sorry that you thought any of the comments about OC of rifles were directed at you.

    There is simply a huge difference in perception between carrying a pistol and carrying a rifle. A pistol is, by it's very nature, a defensive weapon. A rifle is an offensive weapon. Obviously, each of them can be used either way and we all know criminals use pistols far more than rifles. However, a pistol is something you carry because you are prepared for the possibility of trouble while a rifle is something you carry because you are expecting trouble.

    Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against rifles. In fact, I collect military rifles. Have a bunch of them. However, I most certainly do not want to live anywhere where it becomes normal to see people walking around carrying rifles! Do you honestly believe that the average American is going to simply accept that it is normal to carry military style rifles around? You really believe that? If so, you are loony. Nothing will get rifles banned faster than to start carrying them around everywhere. It is hard enough to convince the average person that I should be allowed to own an AR-15 for target shooting. Ain't no way I am going to be able to convince anybody that I should be allowed to own an AR-15 for carrying around to restaurants.

    You remember the arguments against open carrying a handgun 3, 4, 5 years ago? I do.

    They're a lot like your argument against open carrying a rifle.

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...nse/92441-ocd-covered-bridge-restauraunt.html
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/78592-open-carry-favor-please.html (okay that one's an actual anti-rifle-oc from 2010) (and rifle-oc events are still going on in Michigan. Probably even more often than in Texas)
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/71996-open-carry-argument.html
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/11237-why-i-open-carry.html
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/37307-common-oc-cc-threadjack.html
     

    rob63

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    You remember the arguments against open carrying a handgun 3, 4, 5 years ago? I do.

    They're a lot like your argument against open carrying a rifle.

    Oh really, 5 years ago people were arguing that OC of handguns creates a worse perception than OC of rifles? Sorry, but no, I don't remember that.
     
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