How do we fix the police ‘testilying’ problem?

[BehindBlueI's]

How about 2 minutes later? You think you would forget by then?

Interesting video. There was no doubt a green light but the cars in the other two lanes were stopped or stopping. You could also hear a siren immediately after the crash. Was the USBP van running with its lights and siren activated? Maybe that's the "light" the officer was talking about?

When you watch the slow motion video, around 28 seconds in, you can see the light bar on the van flashing. That could be 'the light'. The driver says they kept telling him he ran a red light, yet oddly doesn't post that part of the video. Seems like if the video bolstered his statement, he wouldn't have edited it down to exclude it.

What did the customs guy say to the responding officer? What's the crash report read?

 

[CathyInBlue]

a mistake of fact and a lie are two very different things

Even when the fact is one the witness knows, or reasonably should have known, as a matter of course, as a professional law enforcement officer, such as whether the law in the state of Indiana permits OCing at all, let alone on one's own property?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Comma comma comma comma, comma chameleon. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[rugertoter]

Yep. Cops are people. And some of us will justify the means if it helps to arrive at the desired "ends".

Yes, you are correct. This is scary though. If one has authority given to them to arrest or use other force to subdue citizens, the people with that authority had better make sure they are doing it right.

 

[Dirtdart504]

Here's a thought. How about having the police focus on crimes with real victims rather than crimes where the arrest hinges on observations made by the officer. It seems the bulk of complaints are in cases involving narcotics possession. These cases are usually initiated by something unrelated like a traffic stop. Conversely, crimes like murder, robbery, burglary, rape, are initiated when a person is actually harmed, either physically or financially. Then the bulk of the evidence relies on the testimony of victims or witnesses. So, let's get these "victimless crimes" off the books. Then the police can focus on real crimes where there is much less incentive to commit perjury.

 

[ArevaloSocom]

When the judge, DA and LEO are all paid by the same team..........they tend to be "buddies/friends" and trust either other MUCH more than the new guy being accused/charged with a crime......

 

[VUPDblue]

"...less incentive to commit perjury"


^^^^^^^
stupidest and weakest statement I have read all day

 

[IndyDave1776]

Comma comma comma comma, comma chameleon. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I take it you are offsetting the Grammar Nazis by being a Grammar Comedian?

 

[hoosierdoc]

I take it you are offsetting the Grammar Nazis by being a Grammar Comedian?

You are appositively correct!

(http://www.k12reader.com/appositive-phrase-definition-usage-examples/)

 

[Jack Burton]

I wish I knew what the two of you did for a living so that I could repeatedly trash it.

When society chooses to make my occupation a public service acting on behalf of the people with our delegated authority then you can certainly exercise all the citizen oversight towards it that you feel comfortable with.

 

[longbarrel]

Insert purple as needed.

Unfortunately, there is none needed.

 

[T755]

It's amazing the amount of experts on the police on this forum. SOme valid points we made, however some amaze me. If you think you know the job so well, or how it should be done, apply. Once you go thru about 2 years of training start to finish, take thousands of runs and deal with the majority of situations that require a immediate solutions to long term issues then you can say you know what you speak of. This used to be a good forum/blog but now its just a platform of the police are gonna drive over us with MRAP's yet be unable to remember why it was done. I love when people say.. oh go after the real crimes….. not narcotics…. what do you think is one of the factors in Indpls crime….. Traffic stops find drivers with warrants…. drugs and guns they should not legally posses. But what do I know.

 

[Dirtdart504]

"...less incentive to commit perjury"


^^^^^^^
stupidest and weakest statement I have read all day

"When you point a finger at someone you have three fingers pointing back at you."
Zig Zigler

See VUPDblue's rule #1.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Here's a thought. How about having the police focus on crimes with real victims rather than crimes where the arrest hinges on observations made by the officer. It seems the bulk of complaints are in cases involving narcotics possession. These cases are usually initiated by something unrelated like a traffic stop. Conversely, crimes like murder, robbery, burglary, rape, are initiated when a person is actually harmed, either physically or financially. Then the bulk of the evidence relies on the testimony of victims or witnesses. So, let's get these "victimless crimes" off the books. Then the police can focus on real crimes where there is much less incentive to commit perjury.

Yes, I detest those cops that pull over my supplier for a vehicle violation only to find that they have 2 kilos of coke in the trunk. Cops should focus on real crimes instead because drug running is a victimless crime /purple.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Comma comma comma comma, comma chameleon. Sorry, couldn't resist.

You will respect mah punctuashyown!

"When you point a finger at someone you have three fingers pointing back at you."
Zig Zigler

Not if it's a knife-hand. Then, you have all five pointing at the same thing.

 

[VUPDblue]

"When you point a finger at someone you have three fingers pointing back at you."
Zig Zigler

See VUPDblue's rule #1.

maybe take your own advice there chief.

 

[Destro]

Here's a thought. How about having the police focus on crimes with real victims rather than crimes where the arrest hinges on observations made by the officer. It seems the bulk of complaints are in cases involving narcotics possession. These cases are usually initiated by something unrelated like a traffic stop. Conversely, crimes like murder, robbery, burglary, rape, are initiated when a person is actually harmed, either physically or financially. Then the bulk of the evidence relies on the testimony of victims or witnesses. So, let's get these "victimless crimes" off the books. Then the police can focus on real crimes where there is much less incentive to commit perjury.

Incentive to commit perjury? The incentive NOT to commit perjury is, at minimum (aside from integrity), keeping your job. Cops have no use for other cops who lie. Once your busted committing perjury, your pretty much a paperweight. You will be running VIN checks and taking reports of missing unicorns the rest of your career (If you keep it). You could very well end up in prison, and for what? Busting some low life with some crack? Over a speeding ticked? Hardly worth it.


Only screw-up's need to lie, and AFAIK, nobody likes working with a bunch of screw-ups regardless of where they work.

 

[ultra...good]

Only screw-up's need to lie, and AFAIK, nobody likes working with a bunch of screw-ups regardless of where they work.

Except for Congress.....

 

[rambone]

and for what? Busting some low life with some crack? Over a speeding ticked? Hardly worth it.

"Hardly worth it."

"No incentive to lie."

Yet cops willingly commit perjury, even for things as stupid and mundane as marijuana. That's what was mentioned in the OP if anybody read it. Five (5) cops conspired to lie over their illegal search in order to bust a guy for a stupid weed.

Video Shows Cops Lied On the Stand | NBC Chicago

Can you imagine? Five bad apples all showing up to the same traffic stop? What are the odds?

And doing these reprehensible things, having no incentive to do so. Quite remarkable.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Incentive to commit perjury? The incentive NOT to commit perjury is, at minimum (aside from integrity), keeping your job. Cops have no use for other cops who lie. Once your busted committing perjury, your pretty much a paperweight. You will be running VIN checks and taking reports of missing unicorns the rest of your career (If you keep it). You could very well end up in prison, and for what? Busting some low life with some crack? Over a speeding ticked? Hardly worth it.


Only screw-up's need to lie, and AFAIK, nobody likes working with a bunch of screw-ups regardless of where they work.

I would say that you are absolutely right aside from one detail which needs added. I have come to suspect that you have been fortunate enough to live where you have good police. One of the benefits I have received from INGO is exposure to far more good police than I have encountered in person which has done much to modify my outlook on the subject. You said that nobody likes working with a bunch of screw-ups, and that is reflected in good departments. I have, however, had the misfortune of learning that when you have a department full of screw-ups, they are as hostile to good people as a group of good people will be toward a screw-up.

Needless to say, when this happens and you have a department populated with this low quality of officer, life can get very difficult.