Hospital carry

[Ingomike]

They were telling people they could not have guns in their own residences. Not the same at all.

I don't like the hospitals doing it anymore than anyone else, but I am not ready to let the .gov make them do things the way I want them done.

If I am in a room in particular, I should have that right just as I should in a rented hotel. Either I, insurance, or the government are paying for the room. It is an accommodation…

 

[Onebad06vtx]

A Leatherman is a weapon?

Argh.

It is if you grab someones ear with the pliers. lmao

 

[Ortgies]

I try not to have anything visible (clips or otherwise). It's just one more thing to profile you. Gray man is the word (or words rather).

Agreed! I do support the whole "Constitutional Carry" concept, constitutionally, but not tactically. I have no problem with the idea; I just think that, tactically, I want my concealed weapon to be....concealed.

 

[Ortgies]

Agreed! I do support the whole "Constitutional Carry" concept, constitutionally, but not tactically. I have no problem with the idea; I just think that, tactically, I want my concealed weapon to be....concealed.

yes, again, I'm not offended by the guy in line next to me with an exposed Glock, I just don't wand to give the bad guys any advantage or knowledge.

 

[tmcindy]

One time in the hospital, I couldn't reach my wallet to get my insurance card. Nurse reached in my pocket and got it (ooo, la la, lol) for me. When she opened it, she noticed my LTC card and asked if my hand gun was on me. I said, "yes indeed it is". She then asked if it was ok if security put it in a bag and locked it up in a safe. I said that's fine. The hospital was in MO and the handgun was a Hellcat. This happened when I was in an accident and spent the day getting checked out in the hospital. (Nothing seriously wrong, I was just sore as hell all over for a couple weeks).

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Agreed! I do support the whole "Constitutional Carry" concept, constitutionally, but not tactically. I have no problem with the idea; I just think that, tactically, I want my concealed weapon to be....concealed.

Constitutional carry isn't open carry, at least not just open carry. It simply removed the requirement to have a LTCH for carry, open or concealed.

Also your posts should probably go here.

The Open Carry Argument

I know we've been around this block a few times here but I ran across a link to this post and thought that it was one of the best written pieces I had read on the subject. The author expounds on many of the points that have been debated in several different threads here and across many other...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[gregr]

Well they should NOT. They are a public accommodation receiving government money, just like the apartments that the court said had to allow second amendment rights. And yes, I do have to go there to get medical treatment that TPTB keep saying is a “right”. So they are not anything like my “house”.

Sorry but it doesn`t work like that. They are private property and they may ban weapons. I can only speak for the officers I know, and they are great guys, but at the same time, you do not want to push them.

 

[Ingomike]

Sorry but it doesn`t work like that. They are private property and they may ban weapons. I can only speak for the officers I know, and they are great guys, but at the same time, you do not want to push them.

Well many felt the same way you do about guns in many places but we changed them we just have to work to change this too…

 

[Destro]

Well many felt the same way you do about guns in many places but we changed them we just have to work to change this too…

I think sacrificing private property rights, in the name of the 2A, is a tough sell even here.

The idea that because someone/something accepts federal dollars, they cede certain rights, is a slippery slope.

 

[OurDee]

I remember back in the day; In an accident. Ambulance came and took me to hospital. I had my pistol in a bag riding on my belly. No one said a word about it. That is where I kept it till released. The good ole days. I really don't want to be in possession of a fire arm in the presence of drunk and drugged people. They do not think reasonably if they find out you are armed. I had a drunk enter my apartment. I grabbed the 12 guage pump and he told me to go ahead and shoot him. I jacked all the rounds from it and told him as I held it like a bat that that was not going to happen because I wanted to beat him with it. He left. Intoxicated people think like idiots. I have too much respect for officers in the hospital. I'll save the neener neener for my neighbor's kids. (I know it was a joke) My Father-n-law (God rest his soul) had liver cancer for over 7 years. It was a medical procedure that finaly got him, not the cancer. He came out of surgery one time, regained conciousness, got off the gurny and demanded his clothes so he could go home. He drug 3 sherrif's deputies down the hallway while buck naked. Only thing that stopped him was a little nurse telling him that if he followed her she would get his clothes. I don't think 5 or 6 of them could have stopped him, short of shooting him. I was the first long hair his daughter ever brought home. Lucky for me he was on prozac. I miss Marvin.

 

[Ingomike]

I think sacrificing private property rights, in the name of the 2A, is a tough sell even here.

The idea that because someone/something accepts federal dollars, they cede certain rights, is a slippery slope.

Ok, so just where is the line? Can a private rental home keep one from owning a gun? Apartment? Hotel? Isn’t a hospital a hotel with medical care? The federal dollars put them in a different class. Making those that receive fed dollars follow the constitutional freedoms is ceding rights and a slippery slope?

 

[Ashton1911]

Rental properties cannot prohibit tenants from having firearms. this was recently seen in the supreme court of TN, where 2A rights were enforced, and leasing companies were not permitted to prohibit people from bringing firearms into their property, and couldn't evict someone for possessing firearms in their leased space.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Yet again, they are private property. You don`t have to like it, and, you don`t have to go there. But they have the absolute right to determine what goes on in their "house", just like you do.

@gregr , I am reminded of Ron White's joke about the Miranda: "I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability."

They cannot determine what goes on in their house...They can only remove people and possibly prosecute them. As you very well know, law enforcement is reactive, not prescient. When they can prevent the people intent on doing harm from entering, with 100% certainty, then I will consider obeying their request. Until then, concealed means concealed, and what they don't know won't hurt their little feel-feels.

And if I'm asked to leave by someone with authority to ask that, I will do so.... which is not to say I won't return.

I am a peaceable man, but I am not a victim.

$0.02

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

Ok, so just where is the line? Can a private rental home keep one from owning a gun? Apartment? Hotel? Isn’t a hospital a hotel with medical care? The federal dollars put them in a different class. Making those that receive fed dollars follow the constitutional freedoms is ceding rights and a slippery slope?

I can see a difference here... For your private home, you are paying for the right of occupancy, and it is your home, which carries other legal connotations and protections. The patient is paying to be in the hospital, the visitors are not. (actually, the insurance company is paying, but doing so on behalf of and as contracted with the patient, but the "on behalf of" I think grants the right to the patient.... The visitors are under no such protection of their rights, at least not by virtue of payment for occupancy. Too, I agree with you that they are a public accommodation. The federal money just muddies the waters.

Given that I work in a hospital with the stupid gunbuster signs, and given that a security "guard" there once called me down and ordered me to "go put my weapon in my car" when he saw I had a hospital ID on, and street clothes......and I've seen the videos of armed people entering soft targets... I would prefer to be armed. Whether I am, at work, or not, I will not say. The "guard" was referring to my pocketknife, which he could barely see, BTW..... He explained that it could scare the patients to see one of their nurses carrying a knife. I lifted it so the clip on my pocket slipped off the cloth, and dropped it deeper in my pocket, and said, "Better?"

He relented, as his argument had just disappeared.

Stupid people are like glowsticks.... You just want to snap them and shake them till the light comes on.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[DolomiteDave]

I can see a difference here... For your private home, you are paying for the right of occupancy, and it is your home, which carries other legal connotations and protections. The patient is paying to be in the hospital, the visitors are not. (actually, the insurance company is paying, but doing so on behalf of and as contracted with the patient, but the "on behalf of" I think grants the right to the patient.... The visitors are under no such protection of their rights, at least not by virtue of payment for occupancy. Too, I agree with you that they are a public accommodation. The federal money just muddies the waters.

Given that I work in a hospital with the stupid gunbuster signs, and given that a security "guard" there once called me down and ordered me to "go put my weapon in my car" when he saw I had a hospital ID on, and street clothes......and I've seen the videos of armed people entering soft targets... I would prefer to be armed. Whether I am, at work, or not, I will not say. The "guard" was referring to my pocketknife, which he could barely see, BTW..... He explained that it could scare the patients to see one of their nurses carrying a knife. I lifted it so the clip on my pocket slipped off the cloth, and dropped it deeper in my pocket, and said, "Better?"

He relented, as his argument had just disappeared.

Stupid people are like glowsticks.... You just want to snap them and shake them till the light comes on.

Blessings,
Bill

One of my clients is a big on revolvers. Has to enter a variety of hospitals for work all week. He carries a J frame in scrubs, and no one has ever noticed. If your concealing right, you can go anywhere that doesn't wand or pat you down it seems. "Your mileage on getting caught may vary" is what he always says. Im used to being in places where you cant be armed (Traveling abroad). I just figure out something legal to deter someone who wished me harm.

 

[bwframe]

Have we heard anything on metal detectors or problematic staff interactions at the new Bloomington IU hospital?

 

[Mr. Habib]

Have we heard anything on metal detectors or problematic staff interactions at the new Bloomington IU hospital?

I was there at the ER a few months ago and no metal detectors or security, aside from the mask nazi at the entrance.

 

[xwing]

So I'm guessing this carries the weight of the law? I just noticed this recently. It use to only say weapons are prohibited now it has IC code printed on the sign.

IC 35-47-2-1 (c) This chapter may not be construed:
(1) to prohibit a person who owns, leases, rents, or otherwise legally controls private property from regulating or prohibiting the possession of firearms on the private property;

Yes, the hospital is allowed to prohibit firearms just as they can prohibit anything that is not protected by statute. They can prohibit purple pens on their property if they'd like. But that does not make carrying there illegal. Contrast this to other states' laws which specify a legal penalty for ignoring a “we hate the 2nd amendment” sign.

IC 35-43-2-2 Criminal trespass; denial of entry; denial by posting with purple marks; permission to enter; exceptions
(b) A person who:
(1) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the real property of another person after having been denied entry by the other person or that person's agent;

The only thing the anti-gun business could argue is IC 35-43-2-2(c)(2)
(c) A person has been denied entry under subsection (b)(1) when the person has been denied entry by means of:
(2) posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public;.

But that “notice” is in reference to a trespassing notice, not a notice banning any specific items. If that is the case, then it would default back to (c)(1), “(1) personal communication, oral or written;”

So, basically, to commit a crime, you have to stay there after they’ve told you to leave the property. The security guards or police can certainly make you leave if they know you’re carrying. But I cannot see how they could arrest you unless you refused to leave. IC 35-47-2-1 does not show any way to preemptively stop someone from carrying on property open to the public, but merely codifies the property owners’ rights to make them leave.

IANAL & this is not legal advice, but I have yet to see any case law which would oppose this point of view.

 

[bwframe]

I was there at the ER a few months ago and no metal detectors or security, aside from the mask nazi at the entrance.

Just before the switch to the new facility, I ran into the mask nazi at the old hospital ER when I took SIL. Otherwise, whole deal was very cool.

I interacted with security, admin, nurses and doctors while accompanying SIL everywhere through that visit. Everyone was very nice, friendly and helpful, including the mask nazi, saying my neck gaitor was not acceptable (while handing me one of theirs.)

Not a peep about my CC. Only an affirmation that the hospital would be one of the LAST places you would ever want to be unarmed.

 

[warren5421]

I may be wrong but most all hospitals today are non-profit and receive fed and state money in forms of tax breaks i.e. don't pay any taxes. There seems to be a lot of people today that don't have insurance so they are paying for the room, how would that fall in this thread? Personally I don't think anyone, personal, state, or fed should have the right to tell you where you can have a weapon or what you can own. If you open a place to serve the public you serve the public. The only hospital I won't carry in is the VA and I have been taken there with a 1911 on my body when a major heart attack hit me downtown, the gun went out as so as my wife and kids came.