Hey shotgunners, I got a question.

flightsimmer

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If you have a brass bead front sight how far above the bead do you want the center of the pattern?

I'm guessing maybe 4 inches.
I'm thinking you would want the target sitting on top of the bead with whatever lead is apropreate.

Enlighten me.
 
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42769vette

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If you have a brass bead front sight how far above the bead do you want the center of the pattern?

I'm guessing maybe 4 inches.
I thinking you would want the target sitting on top of the bead with whatever lead is apropreate.

Enlighten me.
Every gun is different. Shooting cardboard box (or whatever) is the only way to know.

My old duck gun (mossberg) was a 6 o'clock hold. My new duck gun (franchi) is dead on.
 

BigRed

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I would think it would have something to do with what you are using it for.

About the only thing I do regularly with shotguns is upland hunting...more of an "instinctive point and shoot" thing there....not sure I even use the bead.

YMMV for waterfowl, turkey, etc.
 

Leo

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Usually a field gun is a 50/50 pattern at 40 yards , that is 1/2 above the bead, 1/2 below the bead when a proper cheek position on a proper height comb is used. A trap gun is usually biases 60/40 or 70/30 so you never loose sight of the target if you sing through.

The back "sight" is literally your eye ball and how far that is above the rib changes the Point of impact. The beads are only to verify that your head is on the right part of the stock before you look for the target. You never see it when shooting. I shot a properly fit gun in league for about 3 weeks and scored the same as always with no bead at all. Shotgun competitors always talk about stock fitting. That is a process where you are measured up and the gun is modified to fit your build. Even that gets technical because my dedicated Trap gun stock has been fit for the trap field and my dedicated skeet gun is fit for that use. My last fit was by Ken Rucker and he had to adjust the drop, the cast and the LOP, I had him add his bump buster recoil system, I love it but that work was $550., ten years ago.

For a guy with an off the rack gun that is the right length of pull for your build, cheek adjustment is a little goes a long way. We used to use a stick on product called mole skin that would raise the cheek thus raising the point of impact. Usually an 1/8 thick was good, and seldom needed more than a 1/4th inch to make the gun shoot "high" bias.

If your center of impact is 4 inches above your center of aim at 18 yards that is a slightly high shooting gun. Which I like. Most of the old timers like to pattern at 40 yards, but that is about choke testing also. If you are 4 inches high at 40 yards, that is almost flat shooting when you consider a 36 inch "hot" pattern.
 
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flightsimmer

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Every gun is different. Shooting cardboard box (or whatever) is the only way to know.

My old duck gun (mossberg) was a 6 o'clock hold. My new duck gun (franchi) is dead on.
That's what I'm getting at, do most users prefer a 6:00 hold and how much or do they prefer dead on at say 30 yards?
 

Tombs

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Your face kind of decides where the pattern lands.

Sometimes your cheekbone and the stock line up to put the bead dead on, sometimes the bead will sit below the pattern.

Since a bead is for fast targeting, my preference would be dead on, so I don't have to think about an offset.

Almost all bead-sighted shotguns I have ever shot have been dead nuts on for me. Sadly my favorite shotguns only come with ghost rings which I do not like as much.
 
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flightsimmer

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Usually a field gun is a 50/50 pattern at 40 yards , that is 1/2 above the bead, 1/2 below the bead when a proper cheek position on a proper height comb is used. A trap gun is usually biases 60/40 or 70/30 so you never loose sight of the target if you sing through.

The back "sight" is literally your eye ball and how far that is above the rib changes the Point of impact. The beads are only to verify that your head is on the right part of the stock before you look for the target. You never see it when shooting. I shot a properly fit gun in league for about 3 weeks and scored the same as always with no bead at all. Shotgun competitors always talk about stock fitting. That is a process where you are measured up and the gun is modified to fit your build. Even that gets technical because my dedicated Trap gun stock has been fit for the trap field and my dedicated skeet gun is fit for that use. My last fit was by Ken Rucker and he had to adjust the drop, the cast and the LOP, I had him add his bump buster recoil system, I love it but that work was $550., ten years ago.

For a guy with an off the rack gun that is the right length of pull for your build, cheek adjustment is a little goes a long way. We used to use a stick on product called mole skin that would raise the cheek thus raising the point of impact. Usually an 1/8 thick was good, and seldom needed more than a 1/4th inch to make the gun shoot "high" bias.

If your center of impact is 4 inches above your center of aim at 18 yards that is a slightly high shooting gun. Which I like. Most of the old timers like to pattern at 40 yards, but that is about choke testing also. If you are 4 inches high at 40 yards, that is almost flat shooting when you consider a 36 inch "hot" pattern.
Now this is what I was getting at.

Currently my newest purchase is running roughly 4 inches high at 25 yards where as my double barrel is shooting dead on and covers half of the target.
Which do most serious shotgunners prefer and why?
I'm becoming interested in skeet shooting, only tried trap one time.
 

BigRed

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If you have a brass bead front sight how far above the bead do you want the center of the pattern?

I'm guessing maybe 4 inches.
I thinking you would want the target sitting on top of the bead with whatever lead is apropreate.

Enlighten me.

What kind of shooting are you doing?
 

flightsimmer

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Usually a field gun is a 50/50 pattern at 40 yards , that is 1/2 above the bead, 1/2 below the bead when a proper cheek position on a proper height comb is used. A trap gun is usually biases 60/40 or 70/30 so you never loose sight of the target if you sing through.

The back "sight" is literally your eye ball and how far that is above the rib changes the Point of impact. The beads are only to verify that your head is on the right part of the stock before you look for the target. You never see it when shooting. I shot a properly fit gun in league for about 3 weeks and scored the same as always with no bead at all. Shotgun competitors always talk about stock fitting. That is a process where you are measured up and the gun is modified to fit your build. Even that gets technical because my dedicated Trap gun stock has been fit for the trap field and my dedicated skeet gun is fit for that use. My last fit was by Ken Rucker and he had to adjust the drop, the cast and the LOP, I had him add his bump buster recoil system, I love it but that work was $550., ten years ago.

For a guy with an off the rack gun that is the right length of pull for your build, cheek adjustment is a little goes a long way. We used to use a stick on product called mole skin that would raise the cheek thus raising the point of impact. Usually an 1/8 thick was good, and seldom needed more than a 1/4th inch to make the gun shoot "high" bias.

If your center of impact is 4 inches above your center of aim at 18 yards that is a slightly high shooting gun. Which I like. Most of the old timers like to pattern at 40 yards, but that is about choke testing also. If you are 4 inches high at 40 yards, that is almost flat shooting when you consider a 36 inch "hot" pattern.
I got to shoot skeet in Sarasota, Florida this last winter, it was a terrific range. Skeet, trap, still board, International clays and sporting clays, I think I got that right. Rifle, pistol and a police practice range.
Met some great guys to join in shooting skeet and had a great time. Looking forward to more of it.
 

Leo

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Now this is what I was getting at.

Which do most serious shotgunners prefer and why?
That is almost like asking are Glocks as good as 1911's.

I know at least two trap shooters that swear by having the pattern 100% above the barrel. I don't like that, the target is too far from the line of sight. Some trap shooters have shot their whole life with a hunting gun so they like the 50/50% pattern. I can do a 50/50% gun but I don't like it as well because the target is often hidden by the barrel when you swing to get in front of the left or right movement.
I'm becoming interested in skeet shooting, only tried trap one time.

I am a little conservative, My Trap gun is set just under 70/30. Trap has farther distances, especially handicap where you are already up to 27 yards behind the trap house so you are breaking them t 55-75 yards out. My Skeet gun is regulated under 60/40, the targets are a lot closer, some are getting broke only 3 to 5 yards from the barrel.

My choices are fairly common
 

Leo

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I got to shoot skeet in Sarasota, Florida this last winter, it was a terrific range. Skeet, trap, still board, International clays and sporting clays, I think I got that right. Rifle, pistol and a police practice range.
Met some great guys to join in shooting skeet and had a great time. Looking forward to more of it.
Sounds like a great place.
 

Twangbanger

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Now this is what I was getting at.

Currently my newest purchase is running roughly 4 inches high at 25 yards where as my double barrel is shooting dead on and covers half of the target.
Which do most serious shotgunners prefer and why?
I'm becoming interested in skeet shooting, only tried trap one time.
I envy you - throwing your gun in the plane and heading to FL to shoot Skeet...no mask, no vaccine passport, no taking your shoes off or checking your gun! Only way to go.

Trap and skeet shooters spend a lot of time obsessing about this, and if you hang around them, you will hear it. Do not over-think this. 4" high at 25 yards is not a bad starting point. Where your gun is hitting now, agrees with what a lot of successful shooters are using, probably the majority, really. Ensuring the gun doesn't shoot left or right is the most important part, for a new gun. Skeet is a 20 yard game, pretty much the max distance. So carefully shoot several shots on the same paper at about 20 yards (it's easy to flinch shooting a shotgun in stationary position), using the choke you intend to use for skeet (IC is probably the max. you want for that), and see where the "ragged hole" develops. As long as it's within half a clay left or right of that 3~4" high mark, you're probably fine for now.

Now comes the more time-consuming part; shoot the gun for a period of time, and simply observe your breaks. You have to factor in your own human error. It will take time to determine if you may possibly benefit from a higher-shooting gun. Once you're dialed-in and are hitting 20+ with some regularity, you can experiment with putting a single sheet or two of moleskin, or a product I really like, which is the Meadow Industries stick-on foam pads, on top of your comb. That will raise your impact point. Do not change anything in your shooting style; simply observe if your breaks seem to improve. You want to go in small increments, and see if it gets better. If not, take it back off. I like these foam pads because they simply make shooting the gun more comfortable and your face takes less punishment. Go to the Meadow Industries website; they have them in 1/16 and 1/8" thicknesses.

If you find the higher impact doesn't agree with you, then it's possible you may be one of those folks who needs to explore in the other direction (lower) and try a gun which is hitting dead-on, which will either involve shaving wood or having the stock converted to adjustable comb, if it isn't already. Needing a lower impact than you have is not common, but it could happen. I shot with a dead-on gun for years, and did well with it, but as I was a trap shooter, I eventually found as I moved back in yardage that I liked a gun that centers about 8" high at 25 yards. That is not a rule, and you can hit or miss targets either way. It's really just whatever you learn to work with.

You will find that like most things, you can learn to shoot either high or low impact well. Your brain will adjust and do what it needs to do over time. Most skeet shots can still be made well with a slightly high shooting gun, but you just don't want to get so high that Station 8 becomes hard, because there you will sometimes cover the target with the barrel, depending how you approach it, and your pattern is small at that distance.
 
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Some others have shared some good info. Here's my thoughts.. Put your gun on the pattern board at 40yds and see where it's actually shooting. As others have said most field guns and many skeet guns shoot a 50/50 pattern at 40yds. Most true Trap guns start at 70/30 because you always want to shoot the target while it's rising. Many dedicated trap shooters shoot a higher pattern than that.
Since I shoot a flat 50/50 gun for hunting, I don't like having too high of a pattern on my target gun so I shoot a 60/40.
A couple keys to success regardless what shotgun discipline you shoot would be...
- put it on paper and see where it shoots for you
- if it beats you up (kicks like a mule) it needs work to make it fit
- ALWAYS always get a hard focus on the target everything else should be a blur
- Never look at the bead once you have mounted the gun
 
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With my shotguns, I shoot them enough to know where they pattern best, then aim accordingly. Honestly for me they all aim and pattern differently, especially depending on what load I am shooting. Not much help with my answer, just suggest shooting the most you can to understand the characteristics of each one.
 

Noble Sniper

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Well…. I’m sure by this point I’m not gonna be adding much to the already good information that’s been shared. I love a good shotgun. I’ve had very expensive shotguns and cheap shotguns. And no two shotguns shoot exactly the same…. They are quirky. Back when I shot trap alot I shot with a Remington 3200…. but when I shot doubles I’d pull out my 60’s B grade 870. I could run straights with the 3200 but shot doubles better with the 870. You just have to spend time shooting that shotgun to see how it patterns, swings etc. . The more you pull the trigger the more you’ll see how you and the shotgun fit together and shoot. Pulling a trigger will tell you everything you need to know.
 

Leo

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I shot with a Remington 3200…. but when I shot doubles I’d pull out my 60’s B grade 870. I could run straights with the 3200 but shot doubles better with the 870.

The 3200 was a great gun, once they figured out how to keep from cracking the stocks. You still see them pretty regular among competitors. In typical corporate form, AFTER they got the bugs out REM sold the design, tooling and parts to Krieghoff. The Peerless model Remington replaced it with was far inferior.

Double shucking a pump gun on doubles is something I do from time to time for fun, but I could never say it is because I do better that way. I have seen someone that was great at doubles with a Model 12 pump gun, and it was always great to see him in action. My hat is off to you Sir!
 

Mongo59

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Moral of the story is (coming from someone who owns 100's of scatter guns) learn the gun cuz it isn't going to learn you...
 

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