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  • phylodog

    Grandmaster
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    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,751
    113
    Arcadia
    Question for those with the knowledge....

    I've got approximately three acres that I had cut & baled this year. It's grass hay and the horses seem ok with it for the most part but I know it doesn't offer the level of nutrition we need to carry our small herd of four in the winter months. I would like to plant something that will offer a higher quality product and my neighbor has offered to allow me to plant a couple acres of his as well. I've got a lot of milkweed that I need to kill off but I think I'm going to kill it all off before tilling it up.

    My big question is, what should I plant? There are a couple of large alfalfa fields close by which seem to do extremely well but my daughter (the family horse expert) doesn't want straight alfalfa. I've got a 5' tiller for my tractor, a 6' wide 1400# (full) roller and a bush hog so I won't be able to cut, rake & bale it myself and will have to depend on a local guy to do it for me unfortunately.

    My secondary question is, with the cost of the equipment, how much hay must someone plant to make buying the equipment worth it? Even looking at used equip that my little 26hp tractor could pull it seems like the equipment would be long since worn out before I even came close to the ground paying for it.
     

    BigRed

    Banned More Than You
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    7   0   0
    Dec 29, 2017
    18,922
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    1,000 yards out
    Question for those with the knowledge....

    I've got approximately three acres that I had cut & baled this year. It's grass hay and the horses seem ok with it for the most part but I know it doesn't offer the level of nutrition we need to carry our small herd of four in the winter months. I would like to plant something that will offer a higher quality product and my neighbor has offered to allow me to plant a couple acres of his as well. I've got a lot of milkweed that I need to kill off but I think I'm going to kill it all off before tilling it up.

    My big question is, what should I plant? There are a couple of large alfalfa fields close by which seem to do extremely well but my daughter (the family horse expert) doesn't want straight alfalfa. I've got a 5' tiller for my tractor, a 6' wide 1400# (full) roller and a bush hog so I won't be able to cut, rake & bale it myself and will have to depend on a local guy to do it for me unfortunately.

    My secondary question is, with the cost of the equipment, how much hay must someone plant to make buying the equipment worth it? Even looking at used equip that my little 26hp tractor could pull it seems like the equipment would be long since worn out before I even came close to the ground paying for it.


    Any pics of the horses?
     

    phylodog

    Grandmaster
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    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,751
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    Arcadia
    Any pics of the horses?

    This is Reno, we just brought him home Saturday
    KrnClMFh.jpg


    This is Murphy (my horse)
    n2qacPZh.jpg


    Jester, our first
    4UOLYoNh.jpg


    I don't have many pics of the mare (Red) but here she is with Jester. She's beautiful, a sweet girl and extremely quick but my daughter doesn't have a job for her so she's up for sale as much as it breaks my heart.
    aZ6Deyoh.jpg
     

    BigRed

    Banned More Than You
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    7   0   0
    Dec 29, 2017
    18,922
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    1,000 yards out
    This is Reno, we just brought him home Saturday
    KrnClMFh.jpg


    This is Murphy (my horse)
    n2qacPZh.jpg


    Jester, our first
    4UOLYoNh.jpg


    I don't have many pics of the mare (Red) but here she is with Jester. She's beautiful, a sweet girl and extremely quick but my daughter doesn't have a job for her so she's up for sale as much as it breaks my heart.
    aZ6Deyoh.jpg


    Great looking horses!
     

    indyjohn

    PATRIOT
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    77   0   0
    Dec 26, 2010
    7,505
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    In the trees
    So.... Let me make comments on something I am peripherally knowledgeable on until those that know better arrive.

    The video I posted Small Farms Matter gives a great formula for accurately estimating how much hay cows consume over a set period of time. Using that math would overestimate how much you would need, assuming the horses consume less per day than a 800 lb cow. You may be able to harvest enough grass in a summer to support your horses from November to April-ish but you'd have to have strong 1st & 2nd cuttings each year.

    Your daughter is right (be sure you tell her so), you don't want straight alfalfa. People are all over the place on the best blend for horses, and cows for that matter. But my studies seem to lean toward Orchard grass + alfalfa. Getting rid of the weeds is important and involves chemicals and timing. Spray early in the season after sprouting and the weeds are starting then your first cutting is clean.

    Contact your county extension office, your taxes pay for them to exist and they will help you grow a productive hay field. From soil evaluation to fertilization & weed control as well as help with seeding.

    Edit: And to the topic of buying equipment to do it yourself -- don't. You are too small to ever recoup the investment and maintenance of the machinery necessary, even if you buy used. Old small balers need more PTO horsepower than your tractor can deliver. Pay the neighbor to do it for you and concentrate on building an awesome hay field.
     

    cmann250

    Sharpshooter
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    18   0   0
    Jan 2, 2018
    503
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    Land of 300bu corn
    If I ask 4 horse people, I get 5 answers on the best type of hay. I struggle to sell alfalfa as most of my customers have very large pets and not working animals.

    Alfalfa will provide protein and an alfalfa grass mix would be ideal. If I had to start over, I would do a 75/25 grass alfalfa mix. This is where your local Ceres/CoAlliance/Nutrien can help. Explain what you want and they can steer you.

    For equipment, you can either work on it or pay on it and if you’re doing both, you screwed up. If we started from scratch, we could replace our used implements for 50-60k, plus tractors which you will need.

    Hats off of the guys out there making 15 acres of hay with Farmall M’s. We do 80 acres and I bounce back and forth between not enough for the effort and more than I can chew.

    TL;DR. Plant an alfalfa mix. You’d need $100k and 60+ acres. Don’t do it!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
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    Btown Rural
    The grass fields that surround my garden get cut whenever they get around to it. I have received a large round bail or two for garden mulch and compost over the years and I "clean up" some leftover hay that didn't get well raked up in the corners. I notice more and more briers in the hay recent years. Aren't the briers bad for horses?
     
    Last edited:

    Magyars

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    Mar 6, 2010
    9,091
    113
    Delaware County Freehold
    Question for those with the knowledge....

    I've got approximately three acres that I had cut & baled this year. It's grass hay and the horses seem ok with it for the most part but I know it doesn't offer the level of nutrition we need to carry our small herd of four in the winter months. I would like to plant something that will offer a higher quality product and my neighbor has offered to allow me to plant a couple acres of his as well. I've got a lot of milkweed that I need to kill off but I think I'm going to kill it all off before tilling it up.

    My big question is, what should I plant? There are a couple of large alfalfa fields close by which seem to do extremely well but my daughter (the family horse expert) doesn't want straight alfalfa. I've got a 5' tiller for my tractor, a 6' wide 1400# (full) roller and a bush hog so I won't be able to cut, rake & bale it myself and will have to depend on a local guy to do it for me unfortunately.

    My secondary question is, with the cost of the equipment, how much hay must someone plant to make buying the equipment worth it? Even looking at used equip that my little 26hp tractor could pull it seems like the equipment would be long since worn out before I even came close to the ground paying for it.
    Can't answer the question about cost....I bought "fancy hay seed" it's got alfalfa, clover and a few other seeds in it. Cost last year was 4.00 per pound
     

    tmschuller

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    41   0   0
    Feb 25, 2013
    2,738
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    Grant county
    I planted a good pasture mix. I don’t remember what brand. Combo of grasses designed for horses and to be grazed on. No alfalfa in it. I bought it from a local seed dealer. Langdon brothers outside of Hartford city. I buy alfalfa pellets and mix it with the horse chow I buy. That way I can regulate how much they get. Easy and it’s cheap enough. I also buy some alfalfa/grass round bales for the cold months.
    Horses have lived a long time just grazing that grew naturally.
    I have some older mares that need better nutrition and the horse chow I buy has helped but not as much as good green grass.
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,608
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    In the country, hopefully.
    Question for those with the knowledge....

    I've got approximately three acres that I had cut & baled this year. It's grass hay and the horses seem ok with it for the most part but I know it doesn't offer the level of nutrition we need to carry our small herd of four in the winter months. I would like to plant something that will offer a higher quality product and my neighbor has offered to allow me to plant a couple acres of his as well. I've got a lot of milkweed that I need to kill off but I think I'm going to kill it all off before tilling it up.

    My big question is, what should I plant? There are a couple of large alfalfa fields close by which seem to do extremely well but my daughter (the family horse expert) doesn't want straight alfalfa. I've got a 5' tiller for my tractor, a 6' wide 1400# (full) roller and a bush hog so I won't be able to cut, rake & bale it myself and will have to depend on a local guy to do it for me unfortunately.

    My secondary question is, with the cost of the equipment, how much hay must someone plant to make buying the equipment worth it? Even looking at used equip that my little 26hp tractor could pull it seems like the equipment would be long since worn out before I even came close to the ground paying for it.
    My son has used Becks and pioneer alfalfa, and Byron seeds from Bob Fairclough in Michigantown. https://faircloughforageseeds.com/

    Bob is a super helpful guy, will sell any amount, has great recommendations for blends, and you’ll get all his knowledge whether you’re planting 5 acres or 60. The seed seems to have better emergence and long term health than the others as well. Our local Co-Alliance (Indian Trails) will blend with fertilizer and spread. You’re probably close enough, the manager is from your area and does a lot of work over there.

    You definitely want a blend. My son plants probably an 80/20 blend and let’s the grass come in over time, but has multiple fields at different stages to supply whatever someone wants. Like someone said above, you can ask 4 people what good hay is and get 5 answers.

    As far as equipment, my son bought his first baler for $1000, an old New Holland. He started out with 5 acres of good hay and a lot of small lots that people didn’t want to mow. He borrowed our 4230 to do everything. He always complained that it went too fast. I didn't understand that until we had cut wheat with our 40’ draper head, and he just couldn’t bale it. He borrowed a little old Allis with creeper gears and it worked great. Maybe 50hp. He put up over 10,000 bales of straw that year. All that to say that you don’t need much power, if you can go slow enough. It’s all about strokes per bale.

    He moved pretty quickly to a NH 575, and currently has a Massey inline, which is an awesome machine. In ten years he’s paying for stuff and making most of a living doing hay.

    I thought at 14 his competitive advantage would be getting high school buddies to come help. He feet quickly informed me that an accumulator was on his short list, and he had one within a few years. Borrowed dads track loader for a while, sometimes uses his skid but likes his tractor for visibility and reach, as someone else said.

    Anyway, you can do it, but you have to want to pretty bad, on 20 or 30 acres. It’s a lot more viable and fun on 120, because you can justify better equipment. It’s also a never ending thing, which is ok if you’re young.
     

    cmann250

    Sharpshooter
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    18   0   0
    Jan 2, 2018
    503
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    Land of 300bu corn
    He moved pretty quickly to a NH 575, and currently has a Massey inline, which is an awesome machine. In ten years he’s paying for stuff and making most of a living doing hay.

    Those inlines really interest me. I’ve probably put 100k bales through this 570 over the years and I’m not nearly committed enough to buy an inline, but they seem nice. I don’t see them in my area of operation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    ditcherman

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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
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    In the country, hopefully.
    Those inlines really interest me. I’ve probably put 100k bales through this 570 over the years and I’m not nearly committed enough to buy an inline, but they seem nice. I don’t see them in my area of operation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I’m guessing you’re Benton county or central Illinois or something? I’m from the “land of 200bu corn if we’re lucky”.
    We’re just close enough to Indy to have that horse market.
    Although some guy from Alabama called a few weeks ago and wanted a truckload.
    23ED5DCB-BC62-41CD-8BC3-1568B20898D0.jpeg
    He actually stacked this with his accumulator for the most part. That in-line is incapable of making a banana bale. And it absolutely eats hay. He had one of the first ones around here, and our local dealer (Roudebush Massey Ferguson) has sold a couple since then.
    They have one sitting on the lot…
    Very well built machine.
     

    Drewski

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Sep 4, 2019
    1,686
    113
    Deep South Side
    I learned one of the best lessons ever courtesy of Mr. Larry Jones on the Jones farm when I was a kid - worked there in the summers. Granted, this was at Tommy's expense, but still, I was struck by the sense of it, and used it as a "motivational" poster on the wall as a manager many years later.

    Tommy: "this thing is broke"
    Mr Jones: "well then, fix it"
    Tommy: "I don't know how"
    Mr Jones: "well then, figure it out"
    Tommy: "But I can't figure it out"
    Mr Jones: "well then, figure it out anyway"

    Homespun genius, right there.

    I'm trying to teach my kids the value in that farmer attitude, and damn if it ain't hard to do.
     
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