Happy Birthday Robert E Lee

[Magyars]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

 

[femurphy77]

Oh boy. . . . . .

 

[T.Lex]

I am of the opinion that all who can should vote for the most intelligent, honest, and conscientious men eligible to office, irrespective of former party opinions, who will endeavour to make the new constitutions and the laws passed under them as beneficial as possible to the true interests, prosperity, and liberty of all classes and conditions of the people.

BTW, Lee was an abolitionist... sorta.

 

[HoughMade]

Maybe according to the standards...in Virginia...at the time, but.....

 

[T.Lex]

Maybe according to the standards...in Virginia...at the time, but.....

Well, it would be a disservice to hold him to today's standards.

He did call slavery a moral evil IIRC, but there were certain qualifiers tacked on that sound horrible to the modern ear.

 

[2A-Hoosier23]

I, for one, would pay money to **** on Robert E Lee's dead body.

Well, it would be a disservice to hold him to today's standards.

He did call slavery a moral evil IIRC, but there were certain qualifiers tacked on that sound horrible to the modern ear.

Or to John Brown's ear. There were people with morals back then too. They fought for abolition. Robert E Lee wasn't one of them

 

[HoughMade]

Well, it would be a disservice to hold him to today's standards.

He did call slavery a moral evil IIRC, but there were certain qualifiers tacked on that sound horrible to the modern ear.

Well, it's kinda like me saying I'm against murder, but committing a few and defending the ability of others to do so.

 

[T.Lex]

I, for one, would pay money to **** on Robert E Lee's dead body.

Or to John Brown's ear. There were people with morals back then too. They fought for abolition. Robert E Lee wasn't one of them

Lee fought for Virginia. He didn't fight for slavery.

Well, it's kinda like me saying I'm against murder, but committing a few and defending the ability of others to do so.

That inconsistency is inherent in war, no? In order to achieve peace, we have to be violent against a significant number of people?

At least Lee was generally consistent on the topic of slavery.

Prewar:

Mr. Blair, I look upon secession as anarchy. If I owned the four millions of slaves in the South, I would sacrifice them all to the Union; but how can I draw my sword upon Virginia, my native State?

Postwar:

So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I have rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be great for the interests of the south. So fully am I satisfied with this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.

 

[HoughMade]

Are we skipping the part where he...y'know...owned slaves?

Let me make my analogy obvious: "I'm against slavery, but I own some slaves and am willing to fight to preserve the right to own slaves....but I'm against slavery."

...and what are you up to here? Have you become a lost causer?

 

[Magyars]

Let's not forget that the Tyrant Lincoln only freed the slaves to preserve the union. He stated if keeping the blacks enslaved would save the union he would do so

 

[HoughMade]

Let's not forget that the Tyrant Lincoln only freed the slaves to preserve the union. He stated if keeping the blacks enslaved would save the union he would do so

Oh, so you really are a lost causer. I get it- abandon all context and the full account and everyone is equal to slavers, even the guy who freed the slaves. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess.

 

[2A-Hoosier23]

Let's not forget that the Tyrant Lincoln only freed the slaves to preserve the union. He stated if keeping the blacks enslaved would save the union he would do so

Indeed. Lincoln said: "If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

It is clear that Lincoln's chief aim was preserving the Union and not freeing the slaves. Anyone who says Lincoln is a liberator, abolitionist, anti-slavery or anything close to that should be told to go back and read some more.

...But what does that have to do with you wishing Lee a happy birthday?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Anyone who says Lincoln is a liberator, abolitionist, anti-slavery or anything close to that should be told to go back and read some more.

Lincoln was anti-slavery personally, politically he was more flexible. He was also by today's standards very racist, and didn't want freed slaves to remain here as free men. He wanted to ship them back to Africa.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

I was gonna comment but decided I'm not touching this one lol.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[NKBJ]

This is hilarious, immediately turning into "slavery".

 

[T.Lex]

Are we skipping the part where he...y'know...owned slaves?

Let me make my analogy obvious: "I'm against slavery, but I own some slaves and am willing to fight to preserve the right to own slaves....but I'm against slavery."

...and what are you up to here? Have you become a lost causer?

haha

Ah.... no. But Lee has always fascinated me. He was not a simple man.

Yes, he was the product of his times. Some unknown percentage of abolitionists shared his view that slavery was bad for WHITES - that it was a moral stain. But, still believed in the supremacy of white Europeans and the corresponding inferiority of black Africans (and many others). It sounds odd to our modern ears, but people back then could be totally racist and against slavery.

To me, knowing about Robert E. Lee is an important part of our history. His story illuminates the complexity of our history. Rather than (in many ways) whitewashing it to say "Confederate General Bad," I think it would be great if we did recognize dates and places associated with him to better understand our own complicated history.

The hypocrisy you see is really no different than other experiences in life. "If you want peace, prepare for war" is another example.

 

[T.Lex]

This is hilarious, immediately turning into "slavery".

In my defense, my quote referenced Lee's thoughts on who people should vote for.

{But yeah, I did mention the abolition thing because I don't think alot of people know about it.)

 

[NKBJ]

To wax serious for the moment, what the man thought and for that matter what anybody thought in the past, we're hard put to find better things to read and study. Even if we don't appreciate their views isn't it wonderful how they formed sentences!

 

[BigRed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

Lee was a man of high quality as was Thomas Jonathan Jackson.

 

[BigRed]

Are we skipping the part where he...y'know...owned slaves?

George Washington?