Had my first squib load - looking for input

[led4thehed2]

Had a squib today shooting .44 Magnum- was using range pick-up brass, Win LPP, 24 gr. IMR 4227, and Xtreme 240 gr bullets. Gun was a Redhawk with a 5.5" bbl. Bullet made it to about 0.5" from the end of the barrel. Lots of unburned powder, and clump of powder just inside the barrel. Was using Wolff reduced power mainspring.

Prior to this I shot 48 rounds of 11 gr. HP38 with LPP and MLPP primers, had 1 light primer strike. All primer pockets were cleaned prior to loading.

Culprit is one of the pieces in the teal box. Foolishly didn't photograph it right away. Strikes look pretty good and centered to me. Any suggestions on how to avoid this again are appreciated, INGO! Or is this just something that happens sometimes, and I need to start taking a dowel rod and mallet to the range? Thanks!

 

[johntheplinker]

What is your case cleaning routine? Since you had a lot of unburned powder I'd hazard a guess that there was some moisture/oil inside the case when they were loaded. And yeah, primers look like they were hit fairly solidly.

 

[Bill2905]

This should not be something that just happens sometimes.

How confident are you that the round had the correct amount of powder? Undercharges do happen.

 

[Jaybird1980]

This should not be something that just happens sometimes.

How confident are you that the round had the correct amount of powder? Undercharges do happen.

This, did you use a powder dispenser? If so do you check periodically to make sure it's throwing accurately. Did it sound like a slow burn or just a really weak round?

 

[Wolfhound]

I am with JTP on this. A clump of unburned powder sure sounds like moisture or oil contaminated the powder charge.

 

[led4thehed2]

What is your case cleaning routine? Since you had a lot of unburned powder I'd hazard a guess that there was some moisture/oil inside the case when they were loaded. And yeah, primers look like they were hit fairly solidly.

My father, for some reason, insists on cleaning the brass. Walnut media, IIRC, and a squirt of some type of brass polishing compound. After decapping, I use a Lee hand tool to clean the primer pockets, and then knock the brass on the table to make sure any crud is knocked out.

 

[led4thehed2]

This should not be something that just happens sometimes.

How confident are you that the round had the correct amount of powder? Undercharges do happen.

Not to sound like a jerk, but pretty much extremely confident. I measure powder by hand using the little yellow powder dippers in Lee die sets. Given how much unburnt powder I found all over the gun and inside the barrel, It seems very difficult to believe that it was significantly undercharged. But, nobody's perfect!

 

[freekforge]

When I first started I had a bad batch of 44spl that I attribute to using a spoonful of mothers in my tumbler. That 100 round batch was the only time I used any additive in the tumbler and the only time I had ftf and weak loads but no squibs.

 

[led4thehed2]

This, did you use a powder dispenser? If so do you check periodically to make sure it's throwing accurately. Did it sound like a slow burn or just a really weak round?

No, all done by hand. I guess I'd have to say it sounded like a really weak round. Kind of like a cap gun going off, when I expect the thunderous bang of a full magnum load. However, I don't think I totally know what you mean by a slow burn round. I'd be glad to learn!

 

[led4thehed2]

I am with JTP on this. A clump of unburned powder sure sounds like moisture or oil contaminated the powder charge.

Thank you for your input. The nearly pea-sized clump of powder that I found just inside the barrel was the most puzzling part, and made me wonder if some type of moisture or liquid had caused it to clump together.

 

[led4thehed2]

When I first started I had a bad batch of 44spl that I attribute to using a spoonful of mothers in my tumbler. That 100 round batch was the only time I used any additive in the tumbler and the only time I had ftf and weak loads but no squibs.

Interesting, I wonder if this could be the case. I think he has been using the same tumbling recipe for quite some time, and I have loaded hundreds of 44 magnum, 9mm, and 30-06 rounds without this issue. Hmm, I appreciate the share!

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thank you for your input. The nearly pea-sized clump of powder that I found just inside the barrel was the most puzzling part, and made me wonder if some type of moisture or liquid had caused it to clump together.

Bingo. Powder doesnt just decide not to burn. You had contamination. Try burning that clump by hand with a BBQ lighter or fireplace match by chance?

 

[Bill2905]

My father, for some reason, insists on cleaning the brass. Walnut media, IIRC, and a squirt of some type of brass polishing compound. After decapping, I use a Lee hand tool to clean the primer pockets, and then knock the brass on the table to make sure any crud is knocked out.

Since your charge weight was likely good and there was a clump of powder, the contamination theory makes most sense.

That liquid brass polish can form wet clumps in the media if it isn't given time to disperse. Even more so if it is added while the brass is tumbling. I learned that the hard way years ago.

You may never determine definitively what happened but now going forward, you know more about what can possibly go wrong and work towards preventing those things.

 

[Jaybird1980]

No, all done by hand. I guess I'd have to say it sounded like a really weak round. Kind of like a cap gun going off, when I expect the thunderous bang of a full magnum load. However, I don't think I totally know what you mean by a slow burn round. I'd be glad to learn!

I mean like a hangfire. Since there was unburned powder I would think the bullet came unseated early so the powder wasn't fully compressed, contamination of powder that resulted in not fully burning, or a low charge which will also result in unburned powder left over.

What kind of crimp are you using?
Do you use case lube?

 

[Bill2905]

I mean like a hangfire. Since there was unburned powder I would think the bullet came unseated early so the powder wasn't fully compressed, contamination of powder that resulted in not fully burning, or a low charge which will also result in unburned powder left over.

What kind of crimp are you using?

Good point on the crimp. Slow burning powders in magnum handgun loads need a pretty firm crimp to allow pressure to build enough to ensure a complete burn.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Also polishing media has been known to plug flash holes. That's why some people don't deprime until after the polishing. But I forego adding any polishing additive.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Also polishing media has been known to plug flash holes. That's why some people don't deprime until after the polishing. But I forego adding any polishing additive.

I dont deprime first for this very reason. I dont find that the spent primers contaminate the media much faster than without. And if you are going to add polish, two warnings. ESPECIALLY for magnums;

-Dont use random automotive or metal polishes that contain ammonia. Ammonia weakens brass. Specialty, brass safe polishes are not expensive, so there is no reason to not use it. It probably wont damage the gun, but you wont get as many reloads out of the brass.

- Run your tumbler for at least 30 mins after adding polish. I also stop my vibratory tumbler after 15 and use my finger to wipe the bowl through the media to dislodge any crusties that stuck to the bowl before turning it back on for the second half to incorporate that bit that WILL come loose once the brass starts hitting it. More often than not I find some. I could see the scenario of absent mindedly* adding polish during tumbling result in a blob sticking hard enough to the side of the inside of the case it wouldnt dislodge during tapping.

But it HAS to be powder contamination. Because once that spark, any spark, gets through the flash hole, ALL The live powder is gonna burn. Period. End of sentence. Full stop. Something has to keep that last pea sized glob from touching off. If it were a flash hole problem, either it all goes, or nothing goes. (unless something chemically prevents the chain reaction.

*Or maybe he has added polish during the tumble for years and this is just the first time a blob has made it into the case.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I dont deprime first for this very reason. I dont find that the spent primers contaminate the media much faster than without. And if you are going to add polish, two warnings. ESPECIALLY for magnums;

-Dont use random automotive or metal polishes that contain ammonia. Ammonia weakens brass. Specialty, brass safe polishes are not expensive, so there is no reason to not use it. It probably wont damage the gun, but you wont get as many reloads out of the brass.

- Run your tumbler for at least 30 mins after adding polish. I also stop my vibratory tumbler after 15 and use my finger to wipe the bowl through the media to dislodge any crusties that stuck to the bowl before turning it back on for the second half to incorporate that bit that WILL come loose once the brass starts hitting it. More often than not I find some. I could see the scenario of absent mindedly* adding polish during tumbling result in a blob sticking hard enough to the side of the inside of the case it wouldnt dislodge during tapping.

But it HAS to be powder contamination. Because once that spark, any spark, gets through the flash hole, ALL The live powder is gonna burn. Period. End of sentence. Full stop. Something has to keep that last pea sized glob from touching off. If it were a flash hole problem, either it all goes, or nothing goes. (unless something chemically prevents the chain reaction.

*Or maybe he has added polish during the tumble for years and this is just the first time a blob has made it into the case.

Undersized charges will leave unburned powder. Just because some lit doesn't mean it all burnt. Also 4227 with this charge in 44 mag should be a compressed load, if it's loose at ignition it can also leave unburned powder. Yes it could also be contamination, especially since it's known he uses a polish additive. So it's not true that just because the powder lit that it will always burn the entire charge, you can have unburned powder without contamination.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Odd. I cant fathom such volatile flakes not touching off in the presence of heat/flame.

 

[BigRed]

Had a squib today shooting .44 Magnum- was using range pick-up brass, Win LPP, 24 gr. IMR 4227, and Xtreme 240 gr bullets. Gun was a Redhawk with a 5.5" bbl. Bullet made it to about 0.5" from the end of the barrel. Lots of unburned powder, and clump of powder just inside the barrel. Was using Wolff reduced power mainspring.

Prior to this I shot 48 rounds of 11 gr. HP38 with LPP and MLPP primers, had 1 light primer strike. All primer pockets were cleaned prior to loading.

Culprit is one of the pieces in the teal box. Foolishly didn't photograph it right away. Strikes look pretty good and centered to me. Any suggestions on how to avoid this again are appreciated, INGO! Or is this just something that happens sometimes, and I need to start taking a dowel rod and mallet to the range? Thanks!


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