Getting an impounded Firearm from Evidence, City County Building Downtown Indy

[Denny347]

Maybe they should. If they don’t want to be lumped in with the ******** bureaucrats maybe they should stand with the people that are getting screwed.

Stand? Like in solidarity? We don't do that while in the performance of our duties. We don't get involved in civil matters, we have no authority there. This is a civil matter.

 

[Denny347]

If the registered owner has made a legal request to get the firearm back and he is not in possession of that firearm, I call that theft. I guess we are talking selective enforcement.

It's not theft, no matter what YOU call it. "A person who knowingly or intentionally exerts unauthorized control over property of another person, with intent to deprive the other person of any part of its value or use, commits theft." Good luck with criminal charges. It's a civil matter.

 

[bobzilla]

Stand? Like in solidarity? We don't do that while in the performance of our duties. We don't get involved in civil matters, we have no authority there. This is a civil matter.

Then file the report. Wouldn’t that be fulfilling your duties?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

All civilian guns are crime guns, until proven otherwise. If you are the original owner and have the receipt, you may have your cleared gun back. Without that, your legally owned property will not be returned to you.

I think the receipt requirement is complete B.S. I don't know that I have receipts for any of my guns, all of which were legally purchased. The only gun I can really prove is mine is my SBR because I have a stamp with my name on it.

 

[actaeon277]

I think the receipt requirement is complete B.S.

Is there a similar requirement for OTHER items held?
For instance, a cell phone.

I'm guessing, no, but then I don't have a lot (or any) experience in this.

Just wondering.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Maybe they should. If they don’t want to be lumped in with the ******** bureaucrats maybe they should stand with the people that are getting screwed.

That's not how that works.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Is there a similar requirement for OTHER items held?
For instance, a cell phone.

I'm guessing, no, but then I don't have a lot (or any) experience in this.

Just wondering.

I don't think so. Property slips have the name of the person the property was obtained from, unless it is found/recovered property with an unknown owner.

 

[Denny347]

Then file the report. Wouldn’t that be fulfilling your duties?

We do not take civil reports, outside of crash reports. The reporting system isn't even set up for that. We have to list the crime as part of the report, for UCR requirements. I'd have to lie and SAY it was stolen, knowing it never was. Not going to Brady disqualify myself for this...

 

[bobzilla]

Are they in possession of a persons firearm without their consent? Was it removed from them ? That’s theft to most of us.

Look I get it. Y’all don’t want to be involved. But that’s why this has gotten out of control. Good people standing by doing nothing is worse than those causing harm. I guarantee if you wanted to help in sone way you’d find a way to do that. You don’t want to and that’s fine, it’s your choice. Doesn’t mean we like it b

 

[Denny347]

Are they in possession of a persons firearm without their consent? Was it removed from them ? That’s theft to most of us.

If it is in our property room then it was taken legally. It is exceedingly rare that property taken to the property room came into the officer's possession illegally, I'm at a loss for an example. We do not need the owner's consent to take property to the property room. Evidence is not required to have owners permission to seize (warrants may or may not be needed based on circumstances). Taking property for safekeeping is because it was found with unknown owner or the owner was incapacitated and there was no one there to take responsibility for it. You are using "feels like" terms when you say, "That's theft to most of us.". What you FEEL like it is, doesn't make it legally so.

 

[maxipum]

If it is in our property room then it was taken legally. It is exceedingly rare that property taken to the property room came into the officer's possession illegally, I'm at a loss for an example. We do not need the owner's consent to take property to the property room. Evidence is not required to have owners permission to seize (warrants may or may not be needed based on circumstances). Taking property for safekeeping is because it was found with unknown owner or the owner was incapacitated and there was no one there to take responsibility for it. You are using "feels like" terms when you say, "That's theft to most of us.". What you FEEL like it is, doesn't make it legally so.

While wholly true that statement does not make hate the situation or those responsible for it any less. Just because something is legal does not make it just.

 

[Denny347]

Look I get it. Y’all don’t want to be involved. But that’s why this has gotten out of control. Good people standing by doing nothing is worse than those causing harm. I guarantee if you wanted to help in sone way you’d find a way to do that. You don’t want to and that’s fine, it’s your choice. Doesn’t mean we like it b

And we do, daily. If we can avoid taking ANYTHING to the property room , we do. However, some things we are required by department policy to secure at the property room. Countless times have officers found a legally owned firearm at scenes of vehicle crashes where the reporting officer gives the firearm (with the owners permission) to a friend or family, after we make sure they are not a prohibited person. Countless times, people we come into contact with for various investigations are armed (legally) and they leave, still in possession of their firearm. But once we take it to the property room, we have ZERO influence, affect, input, to what happens after that. I actually had no idea WHAT they do with property down there. What more would you like me to do to help this situation?

 

[Denny347]

While wholly true that statement does not make hate the situation or those responsible for it any less. Just because something is legal does not make it just.

I think your issue is not TAKING it to the property room. I have not seen a single issue with the property BEING there. The issue was with HOW it was released. I 100% do not agree with how that is done. But I am powerless to change it.

 

[bobzilla]

What would I have you do? I don’t know. Throwing your hands in the air and saying you don’t know what happens down there and can’t do anything doesn’t sound like you’re doing everything. We can’t play ignorance when we break a law.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I still say we need a sticky. I'm in an accident, come get my gun. It's about to disappear forever in the property room.

Luckily there are some fine upstanding officers that understand the issue and will go out of their way to not deliver that gun to the property room. I know several officers on here have said they will contact a spouse or trusted friend and drive around with it in their trunk the rest of their shift if necessary until they can meet up with somebody to hand it off to take it home and avoid the property room nonsense. Kudos to them!

So if you are ever in an accident and can communicate, ask the officer to contact somebody to give your gun to. Some just might.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And we do, daily. If we can avoid taking ANYTHING to the property room , we do. However, some things we are required by department policy to secure at the property room. Countless times have officers found a legally owned firearm at scenes of vehicle crashes where the reporting officer gives the firearm (with the owners permission) to a friend or family, after we make sure they are not a prohibited person. Countless times, people we come into contact with for various investigations are armed (legally) and they leave, still in possession of their firearm. But once we take it to the property room, we have ZERO influence, affect, input, to what happens after that. I actually had no idea WHAT they do with property down there. What more would you like me to do to help this situation?

Like THIS guy. I posted one page back thinking I was already at the end of the thread.

See, I told you so!

 

[Sigblitz]

where the reporting officer gives the firearm (with the owners permission) to a friend or family

I have retrieved 3 guns this way, and thank you.

 

[Denny347]

What would I have you do? I don’t know. Throwing your hands in the air and saying you don’t know what happens down there and can’t do anything doesn’t sound like you’re doing everything. We can’t play ignorance when we break a law.

Well, I'm not breaking the law so let's not make that comparison. It is an internal policy that I cannot change. Policies are made by those at the top. I'm at the very bottom, well one step above the very bottom. I do not have the authority to tell my Chief how to supervise the civilian employees that run the Property Room . Being a paramilitary organization, there is a chain of command and circumventing that would be detrimental. The ONLY way this gets changed is a clear threat of a lawsuit. That is the only way policies get changed.

 

[Sigblitz]

Have you considered a different font when answering your questions? Just a thought.

No.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Im going to email Guy, (since he helps write these kinds of bills) and suggest that if they do write that bill, make it so that if you can prove ownership otherwise, including photos showing the serial number that it is proof enough to claim.
If All I need from my insurance company is a photo of the gun or at least a serial number to prove I had it to get paid for a loss, that should be good enough for IMPD. (or any other jackboot agency)

And I wonder if this was Frank Anderson's doing? I remember back in the day he mandated that all LTCH apps processed in Marion County be typewritten. Not clearly printed as specified on the form per ISP's requirements, but TYPEWRITTEN. His people would take a sharpie and do this to the instruction "All entries must be typewritten or clearly printed legibly." along with a full page of instructions stapled to it that also mandated typing. He went out of his way to make it as hard as possible to get. I guess if you werent smart/wealthy enough to own a typewriter, work somewhere with access to one, or know you could use one at a library, you didn't need a LTCH.

When I went to the ISP office to change my address, I politely griped to the lady about their requirement. She was sitting at her desk and said "No, that is Indy's rule. Not ours. *holds up a stack of apps* None of these are typed and they are just fine."