Eliminating 19 Classifiers

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  • jakemartens

    Master
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    Aug 30, 2008
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    Indianapolis, IN
    I sent this to the match directors here, but wanted to post this up here for you guys as well.

    Club Presidents,
    Per direction from USPSA President, Phil Strader, Please get this out to all Match Setup staff, directly.

    With the division change to Revolver, allowing 8-shot Minor, going into play in February...USPSA needs to pull some of the classifiers (at least for the time being). See the list below. You are getting this ahead of any changes on the USPSA website.
    Nobody wants to lose any classifiers...even for a little bit. However, if you take a look at the list, most will show a clear advantage when comparing an 8-shot gun to a 6-shot. Such is the nature of the beast.
    Please don't run the classifiers on the list. All other classifiers on the USPSA Classification page should be current (over 60 classifiers to choose from in upcoming matches).
    Here is the list of impacted classifiers. Again, please don't run these, as they are in the process of being removed from the website:
    99-41 Works For Me
    99-57 Bookout’s Boogie
    03-03 Take ‘em Down
    03-04 3-V
    03-08 Madness
    03-09 On The Move
    06-01 Big Barricade
    06-02 Big Barricade II
    06-04 Fluffy’s Revenge 1
    06-05 Fluffy’s Revenge 2
    09-02 Diamond Cutter
    09-04 Pucker Factor
    09-08 Crackerjack
    09-10 Life’s Little Problems
    09-13 Table Stakes
    13-02 Down The Middle
    13-05 Tock-Tock
    13-07 Double Deal 2
    13-09 Window Pain

    This does not mean that your current scores on these before 2/1/2014 will fall out, just going forward they are not to be used as classifiers
    (enjoy your 8 shot minor revolvers.........)
     
    Last edited:

    smith52

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    Oct 4, 2010
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    The bad idea of allowing 8 shot minor in revo just keeps getting worse. Something that was not supposed to affect any division except Revo has now spilled over to all the other divisions.
     

    Bosshoss

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    Dec 11, 2009
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    MADISON
    These are details that needed to be put in front of the membership BEFORE making this rule change. The 6/8 shot thing was put in front of the membership but no details on HOW it was going to be implemented. I asked all the area directors and everyone else at the top, months ago, how they planned to deal with this issue(classifiers). I got my answer at 10 PM the night BEFORE the rule went into effect.:rolleyes:
    This rule was supposed to increase revolver turnouts and it might at first as it sounds like it would make revolver easier and more fun but I predict that the turnouts will return to what it has been by the end of the year.
    Unfortunately revolver shooters are getting beat up on some of the forums because of the dropping of these classifiers. Some of the classifiers that were dropped were some of my favorites, even if they weren't "revolver friendly". The way it was before I didn't care about having to do reloads that none of the auto shooters had to do because I knew the rules and chose revolver knowing that I was only shooting against other revolvers on the national level when shooting classifiers. Now with 8 shooters it is a HUGE disadvantage, shooting a 6 shot, and I wish they would have put some thought into a different solution other than dropping these classifiers.
    Most of the revolver shooters I know and shoot with were against this rule but a lot of shooters that wanted to try revolver helped push this through. I guess that was the idea to get more shooters and I hope it works but I argued that if all these shooters have a 8 shot gun why aren't they shooting it now? I mean I do know several shooters that have been shooting 8 shot guns in production and limited 10 before this rule. So why couldn't those shooters that wanted to try revolver with an 8 shot gun could have been shooting it already?
    It's to late for this discussion now, the decision has been made but it was NOT made by all the revolver shooters so don't hate us all:abused:

    FWIW the first weekend of the new rule just ended and several friends and revolver shooters around the country shot this weekend. They said it was fun and a big change from their 6 shots BUT they said their wasn't any more revolver shooters than usual:dunno:.
    I hope it picks up for the SS/PROD/REV. match as we are at 50% of last years entries.
     

    jakemartens

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    I hold you personally responsible. And Bob, too.

    :)

    -rvb

    Ditto...

    I am kidding. I do not blame the 11 people that wanted a new gun (again a joke, we all know that Jerry was behind this), I blame the Area Directors and especially the paid positions of Phil and Amidon for the lack of communication and how this has been handled. The roll out of the new rulebook and the elimination of classifiers has been a joke. There is still right now no mention of this on the USPSA website, their twitter page or facebook page.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 14, 2009
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    I agree completely about the lack of communication and preparedness to get the rule book out. I kept having flashbacks to my idpa days... want to convince that competitor he deserved a penalty? Tell him you read it on some unofficial internet forum (sorry it's not in the rule book we have on hand). Makes the sport look like amature hour. I could tell you some stories about some well-known shooters using the lack of available rule books to get out of penalties....

    I sent Kyle a couple of emails asking him to consider proposing a bylaw change that would require the rules to be available to members a set amount of time before the rules could go into effect (eg they have to be on-line 3 months prior and hardcopies mailed 1 month prior), but never heard back from him...

    How the hell are they going to run this up-coming RO course w/o the correct rule book? sure, 90% of it's the same.... no worries... scribble in the margins....

    -rvb
     
    Last edited:

    mongo404

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    Sep 18, 2009
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    Don't feel neglected rvb, I have sent him a couple emails also with no response.. **** poor communication! I'm glad our Area rep is on the ball!!!
     

    Coach

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    Apr 15, 2008
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    19 classifiers gone, about 1 per revolver shooter. The funny thing is that revolver shooters hardly *****. The just shoot what is in front of them and thank the good Lord for the opportunity to be shooting. This throwing of classifiers out was unnecessary and stupid.
     

    smith52

    Sharpshooter
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    0   0   0
    Oct 4, 2010
    440
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    Kosciusko County
    I think Paul summed it up nicely. I believe you'll find that Paul and I both opposed the 8shot minor rule change to revolver division. For once I can not be held responsible so you all will have to blame the other 17 revolver shooters.
     

    sv40sw45

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    Well !!!! clubs only have to have 3 classifier a year to stay affiliated so there maybe a lot of matches this year with no classifier. It is very hard to pick classifiers that other clubs have not shot in your area with all the classifiers---- now whats it going to be like with 19 less.
     

    rvb

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    Well !!!! clubs only have to have 3 classifier a year to stay affiliated so there maybe a lot of matches this year with no classifier. It is very hard to pick classifiers that other clubs have not shot in your area with all the classifiers---- now whats it going to be like with 19 less.

    Why does it matter if another club has shot the same classifier recently?
    There's still something like 60 classifiers to choose from... that's enough for 7 or 8 clubs to use and never see the same classifier all year. The problem is we tend to pick the easy ones to set up since we focus on field courses (guilty).

    -rvb
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    throwing of classifiers out was unnecessary ....

    agree. Is there precedence for tossing classifiers because competitors might use different equipment in a division? eg was this an issue w/ the creation of SS? (Were there 10-round based classifiers that were tossed because someone might be shooting major/8?)

    I know we want the classifiers to reflect the shooter's ability, not the gear... but this seems like the sport is bending to keep the appearance the 6-rounders are competitive .... If you can't win a classifier w/ an extra reload, how are you going win a match w/ a dozen+ extra reloads?

    no real impact to me, except some of those classifiers were shot a lot, and it was fun/interesting to look back at them for signs of improvement...

    -rvb
     

    Killion

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    Apr 11, 2013
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    Classifiers suck. They should just get rid of them all. Your classification should be how well you finish a match. Plus...I want to stay in C class the rest of the year
     

    sv40sw45

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    Why does it matter if another club has shot the same classifier recently?
    There's still something like 60 classifiers to choose from... that's enough for 7 or 8 clubs to use and never see the same classifier all year. The problem is we tend to pick the easy ones to set up since we focus on field courses (guilty).

    -rvb

    Most all classifiers are BORING anyway!!!$$$%%%%!!!! How many 100 times have you shot the EL Press??? BORING!!! When you have 5 field courses who wants to set up a Classifier field course with all the time consuming measuring. NOT ME
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 14, 2009
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    Most all classifiers are BORING anyway!!! .... who wants to set up a Classifier field course with all the time consuming measuring. NOT ME

    That's why we see the same boring classifiers over and over again, is because we keep choosing the boring ones because they are easy to set up. self perpetuating. I'm not casting stones, cause I am guilty, too. There's still 60+ classifiers to choose from. While I don't like loosing the 19, I don't think it's the end of the world (some of them, eg the fluffy's revenge, v-3, the big barricades are the ones commonly used).

    How many 100 times have you shot the EL Press???

    6 times in 8 yrs, according to my classifer record... doesn't seem that bad...

    -rvb
     

    CB45

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    Mar 29, 2010
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    Better get good at SHO & WHO!

    Most of the removed were freestyle stages. I didn't see one with one handed shooting.

    IMO, they should have removed Front Sight 1&2 and El Pres while they were at it.

    :draw:
     

    jakemartens

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    Aug 30, 2008
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    Indianapolis, IN
    I don't like how this was done, I don't like the lack of communication about it and I can tell you that the home office was not in the loop on this decision either.

    Don't know if you have realized this or not but this one rule and eliminating these classifiers also means that future classifiers will either have to be 6 rounds or less or 9 rounds or more.

    It was a bad decision, and it appears it was pushed thru by the committee chair person on this. They should have left them and let the HHF sort themselves out in Revolver
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 14, 2009
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    Don't know if you have realized this or not but this one rule and eliminating these classifiers also means that future classifiers will either have to be 6 rounds or less or 9 rounds or more.

    yea, that occured to me... again, flashbacks to idpa... phrase "revolver neutral" came to mind...

    -rvb
     

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