Electrical advice wiring an outbuilding

[04FXSTS]

Here I am again asking for advice, this time I am putting in a 12x16 yard barn for doing some woodworking and hooking up the motor home. I will come off the panel in the house, 200amp and run the electric to the YB about 40 foot away. The circuit for the MH will end with an outlet box on the side of the barn, 30amp circuit 120 volts. It won't use near that, it has been on the garage circuit with the extra fridge on an extension cord on a 15amp circuit, just needs enough to keep the battery charged and run the fridge. The barn will have a couple 15 amp tools but they will never be running at the same time but I may have a 1500watt heater running when it is cold out.
What is best and cheap? Do I need to pick up power from the main box? I was also thinking if it would be possible and safe to add two 30amp breakers to my house panel and run two 10-2 lines one to the MH and one to the barn. Thanks, Jim.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Here I am again asking for advice, this time I am putting in a 12x16 yard barn for doing some woodworking and hooking up the motor home. I will come off the panel in the house, 200amp and run the electric to the YB about 40 foot away. The circuit for the MH will end with an outlet box on the side of the barn, 30amp circuit 120 volts. It won't use near that, it has been on the garage circuit with the extra fridge on an extension cord on a 15amp circuit, just needs enough to keep the battery charged and run the fridge. The barn will have a couple 15 amp tools but they will never be running at the same time but I may have a 1500watt heater running when it is cold out.
What is best and cheap? Do I need to pick up power from the main box? I was also thinking if it would be possible and safe to add two 30amp breakers to my house panel and run two 10-2 lines one to the MH and one to the barn. Thanks, Jim.

I would add 2 30 amp breakers to my main box and run those to your MB and MH and then for extra safety use gfi outlets and of course if those are outside then make sure they are outside rated and water tight... I will also add, im not a electrician lol.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[04FXSTS]

I am not an electrician either but have done a fair amount of wiring of my own. The property I just sold in Illinois I did all the wiring but that was from a new meter to the building. All new is not a problem just want to come off existing the best way. Jim.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Amazon product ASIN B00002N7MS
Run a 4/3 direct burial from the main panel. Use a proper RV plug. use GFCI breakers or outlets. Use 20a circuit for the tools. This gives you room for expansion in the future.
Run a separate ground rod at the yb and keep your grounds and neutrals separate in the sub panel

 

[schmart]

I agree with Jaybird to run a higher current line, and break it out with a subpanel with dedicated ground rod in the YB. That way you get 220v in the barn when you come across an inexpensive industrial tool, or if you ever upgrade the RV to a larger one that wants 220v or to use the existing one as a guest room sometime, where the AC, etc would be running. etc. etc. It is just way more flexible at a very similar cost. Right now Al wire is quite a bit less expensive than copper, and is still acceptable to use to feed a remote panel.

 

[2A_Tom]

Amazon product ASIN B00002N7MS
Run a 4/3 direct burial from the main panel. Use a proper RV plug. use GFCI breakers or outlets. Use 20a circuit for the tools. This gives you room for expansion in the future.
Run a separate ground rod at the yb and keep your grounds and neutrals separate in the sub panel

Very good.

You will need to have a 100 amp breaker in the 200 amp box you are coming from. 4/3 UF or in pipe. 100 amp sub pannel. With ground rod.

You need to make sure that the sub panel does not over load the house service.

I am not an electrician, but my dad was and taught me a lot. I have 35 years in construction working closely with electricians and doing a fair bit myself.

I have done this exact thing more than once.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Code use to be you weren't suppose to run 2 of the same size circuits to an outbuilding. You are supposed to install a sub. Not knowing your full setup and it just being a small outbuilding, I feel like a 60a is suitable.

I haven't been in the electrician game for over 15years though, hopefully someone more current on code will be through here if I'm mistaken

 

[schmart]

Very good.

You will need to have a 100 amp breaker in the 200 amp box you are coming from. 4/3 UF or in pipe. 100 amp sub pannel. With ground rod.

You need to make sure that the sub panel does not over load the house service.

I am not an electrician, but my dad was and taught me a lot. I have 35 years in construction working closely with electricians and doing a fair bit myself.

I have done this exact thing more than once.

100A breakers start to get VERY pricey, if you can even find one for the main box you have, and isn't required. What I've done in the past 2 out buildings I've made is run wire rated for 100A, install a 100A rated sub panel, but only install a 60A rated breaker in the main. I did this as upsizing wire from 60A to 100A was not that much (course last time was a decade ago). Code allows wiring and boxes to be oversized so having the smaller breaker is OK. That way if I ever NEEDED more power, I could bite the bullet on the 100 breaker.

In this case, since it is a small outbuilding, maybe sizing the wire for 50 or 60 A would be appropriate. I'd recommend going 60A as that way if you ever need to use a welder, you can put a 50A circuit in, leaving 10A for lighting or fans! I wouldn't want that in a production shop, but I'm only welding every month! If you do start to use the higher current, then yes you may need to consider the total load of the system.. Maybe turn off the electric water heater while welding!

--Rick

 

[lrdudley]

In the county where I sell electrical supplies, they require that the ground be run back to the main panel. No ground rod at the outbuilding. If you put a 60 amp breaker in the main panel, it will accept 2/2/2/4 Aluminum Mobil Home Feeder to supply the panel in the outbuilding. The 60 amp breaker is much less expensive than a 100 amp breaker. The 2/2/2/4 will handle up to 100 amps at that distance and is direct burial. Will only need conduit going into the ground and out of the ground. The 2/2/2/4 is less expensive than the 6/3 w/ground to power 50 amps to the outbuilding.

 

[Morgan88]

" I may have a 1500watt heater running when it is cold out."

How many max amps does this heater pull?

 

[radar8756]

" I may have a 1500watt heater running when it is cold out."

How many max amps does this heater pull?

P = I x E so I = P/E ... 1500 / 120 = 12.5 amps

 

[Morgan88]

As that great philosopher said ' it's time to get back to the basics" Well done Radar8756. Thanks

Morgan88

 

[***Ironhead***]

Very good.

You will need to have a 100 amp breaker in the 200 amp box you are coming from. 4/3 UF or in pipe. 100 amp sub pannel. With ground rod.

You need to make sure that the sub panel does not over load the house service.

I am not an electrician, but my dad was and taught me a lot. I have 35 years in construction working closely with electricians and doing a fair bit myself.

I have done this exact thing more than once.

Pretty sure you are not supposed to use a ground rod on a sub panel.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Pretty sure you are not supposed to use a ground rod on a sub panel.

The National Electrical Code say you need one.

 

[***Ironhead***]

The National Electrical Code say you need one.
View attachment 129799

I hear you, I am not an electrician but my good friend is. Told me I didn’t need one but I added one any way and the
county inspector wouldn’t approve barn addition until I disconnected it. So I started researching it and from what I read you don’t. What you quoted may or may not be right as I do not know the code. There was quite a discussion amongst the journeyman in the discussions I read wether it was needed or not. They each quoted the Nec and sections that referred to it but I couldn’t follow it. Look it up it maybe enjoyable reading for someone in the know.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I hear you, I am not an electrician but my good friend is. Told me I didn’t need one but I added one any way and the
county inspector wouldn’t approve barn addition until I disconnected it. So I started researching it and from what I read you don’t. What you quoted may or may not be right as I do not know the code. There was quite a discussion amongst the journeyman in the discussions I read wether it was needed or not. They each quoted the Nec and sections that referred to it but I couldn’t follow it. Look it up it maybe enjoyable reading for someone in the know.

Yeah I've read it more than I cared to. I left the IBEW in 2008, so it possibly could have changed. I know we always had to.
Bonding where and when and how was always the issues for us between counties, but times change.

Edit: I think the part that is confusing people would be that a SWBC or MWBC wouldn't need a ground rod. Making it a feeder means that the ground rod would be required.
Some County Inspectors are not all that knowledgeable, not saying yours isn't, but it happens.

 

[***Ironhead***]

An insulated neutral must also be separate from the ground bar at the subpanel and if installed in a separate building must have it's own ground electrode with a solid #6 copper wire attached from electrode to the ground bar. The main service panel groundbar must be bonded and the subpanel unbonded.

 

[Jaybird1980]

An insulated neutral must also be separate from the ground bar at the subpanel and if installed in a separate building must have it's own ground electrode with a solid #6 copper wire attached from electrode to the ground bar. The main service panel groundbar must be bonded and the subpanel unbonded.

Correct

My reference to bonding was more about bonding other things. Meters, Water Pipes, Equipment. Etc.....

 

[Axxe55]

Subbed for the information.

 

[04FXSTS]

The National Electrical Code say you need one.
View attachment 129799

This is pretty much my first thought on how to do the job. I ran electric to a garage before but that was 25 years ago and my memory is not much over a week ago. When I did I included a ground rod at the garage but also connected the neutral and ground to the same buss. Back then I had a wiring book but don't remember what it said about that and no longer have the book. It could have changed in those years or I could have missed it. Must not have been too out of whack because everything still worked fine when we sold out and moved. Jim.