Dunham's in Kokomo

[random44]

I saw there were no Dunham threads since 2013, so I thought I'd start a new one instead of bumping an old one. I went to the Dunham's in Kokomo last weekend with my son who just got back from OSUT at Ft. Benning. He wanted to look at handguns so we went to a few other LGS before checking Dunhams. The guy behind the counter would not let my son handle any handguns when he saw he wasn't 21 yet on his ID. I thought, no big deal, and asked, "you can let me see it, right?" The guy said yes, but he couldn't sell me anything because he knew I was buying if for my son.
So apparently, buying a graduation gift for my son who is in the military is the same as being a straw buyer. I will never set foot in any Dunham's again for any item, let alone firearms. Just thought I'd pass it on.

 

[shawnppickett]

While I understand your frustration, Dunham's was following the letter of the law.

 

[Rookie]

Yeah, no they weren't.

 

[random44]

While I understand your frustration, Dunham's was following the letter of the law.

Please post a link to the federal law or Indiana statute that prohibits buying a firearm for a family member that is legally allowed to own one.

It may be a crappy store policy, but there is no federal or IN state law that prohibits this.

 

[KokomoDave]

dontlie.org

 

[random44]

That link is irrelevant as nobody was lying for anyone and my son is completely eligible to own firearms, otherwise he would be ineligible for military service.

From the horse's mouth:

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download (Look at number 7)

https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download

Also:

Giving a Firearm as a Gift? Some Reminders from NSSF

What better way to share our enjoyment of hunting and the shooting sports than to make a gift of a firearm to a family member, close friend or relative?

www.nssf.org

 

[KokomoDave]

So you are saying he can go into another brick and mortar store and purchase a handgun just because he serves in the military?
I haven't heard that before. Is this new?

 

[random44]

No, I'm saying that he is eligible to own firearms according to the ATF, he is my son, and it is completely legal for me to purchase a handgun and give it to him as a gift.

 

[KokomoDave]

Ah. That is what I was anticipating!
I had the same experience. Bought Glock 17 for son. Wouldn't let him carry it until he and I both went thru a CCW class thru Fortress Defense. He was more than proficient as I but it was a great bonding experience. He said that he appreciated it more since I was thete with him as a student, not the instructor.

 

[random44]

Ah. That is what I was anticipating!
I had the same experience. Bought Glock 17 for son. Wouldn't let him carry it until he and I both went thru a CCW class thru Fortress Defense. He was more than proficient as I but it was a great bonding experience. He said that he appreciated it more since I was thete with him as a student, not the instructor.

A very nice choice.

Basically what it comes down to is they put a damper on a father/son moment. My son had just returned from Infantry OSUT after being gone six months and we couldn't even look at a gun he was interested in together. As I said before, there was nothing remotely shady or illegal in what we were doing, so it rubbed me the wrong way. Hell, if my son had wanted to buy an assault rifle he could have done so on his own since he is 18. We went to the LGS down the road and they had no problem with us looking at guns together.

I personally will never buy another firearm from Dunham's. I don't think they are terrible or should be shut down, but I will take my business elsewhere.

 

[KokomoDave]

Roby is a good guy. I have known him for decades.

 

[random44]

Roby is a good guy. I have known him for decades.

Yeah, we didn't end up buying anything at Roby's that day, but I will definitely go back there.

 

[Rookie]

Roby is a good guy. I have known him for decades.

Rumor has it that Roby isn't the owner anymore.

 

[KokomoDave]

Rumor has it that Roby isn't the owner anymore.

Whut!??? Who is?

 

[KokomoDave]

Whut!??? Who is?

 

[Rookie]

Not sure who he is

 

[worddoer]

While I understand your frustration, Dunham's was following the letter of the law.

Not really. I dealt with this many times when I worked behind a gun counter.

Indiana law allows anyone 18 or older who is "proper person" to own a handgun as well as obtain a "license to carry a handgun" to carry that same handgun. Indiana law does not place a restriction on the purchase of handguns. That is federal law.

Federal law prohibits anyone under the age of 21 from purchasing a handgun from an FFL, not from owning one. Since Indiana law does not align with federal law, this creates a odd situation for 18-20 year old's. They can own and carry handguns, but they cannot purchase them.

In this case, if the father purchases the handgun as a true 100% gift (no exchange of money, services nor any compensation in any form).....as a true 100% gift, it is permissible for a parent to purchase a handgun for their 18-20 year old child assuming the child is a "proper person".

What the OP encountered with Dunham's was probably related to their store policy. Most of the people behind the counter at a box store are poorly educated by their employer and often don't know the difference between store policy and the law.

ATF does not mind true 100% gifts to immediate family members who are "proper persons" (parents - children - siblings) under the age of 21. But once someone is 21 or older, the grey zone is more murky and the ATF gets a lot more picky.

Because of this added murkiness and pickiness from the ATF, this is how most box stores handle those 21 or older. There viewpoint is that this helps to separate out those who really want to offer a gift versus those who are attempting a straw purchase.

If a family member wishes to gift a gun to someone 21 or older, the preferred method the ATF mentions is to offer a gift card or gift certificate to the family member. This allows the family member to help pay for the gun all while the 4473 and all related background checks and documents are being run in the name of the person who will actually be the owner of the gun.

A gift card is not as pretty as a nice shiny new gun under the Christmas tree. But that is how many box stores choose to do business these days.

 

[BigRed]

While I understand your frustration, Dunham's was following the letter of the law.

No.... they were not.

 

[BigRed]

F those that voted for Biden have their way, it WILL be illegal.

 

[Chewie]

Not really. I dealt with this many times when I worked behind a gun counter.

Indiana law allows anyone 18 or older who is "proper person" to own a handgun as well as obtain a "license to carry a handgun" to carry that same handgun. Indiana law does not place a restriction on the purchase of handguns. That is federal law.

Federal law prohibits anyone under the age of 21 from purchasing a handgun from an FFL, not from owning one. Since Indiana law does not align with federal law, this creates a odd situation for 18-20 year old's. They can own and carry handguns, but they cannot purchase them.

In this case, if the father purchases the handgun as a true 100% gift (no exchange of money, services nor any compensation in any form).....as a true 100% gift, it is permissible for a parent to purchase a handgun for their 18-20 year old child assuming the child is a "proper person".

What the OP encountered with Dunham's was probably related to their store policy. Most of the people behind the counter at a box store are poorly educated by their employer and often don't know the difference between store policy and the law.

ATF does not mind true 100% gifts to immediate family members who are "proper persons" (parents - children - siblings) under the age of 21. But once someone is 21 or older, the grey zone is more murky and the ATF gets a lot more picky.

Because of this added murkiness and pickiness from the ATF, this is how most box stores handle those 21 or older. There viewpoint is that this helps to separate out those who really want to offer a gift versus those who are attempting a straw purchase.

If a family member wishes to gift a gun to someone 21 or older, the preferred method the ATF mentions is to offer a gift card or gift certificate to the family member. This allows the family member to help pay for the gun all while the 4473 and all related background checks and documents are being run in the name of the person who will actually be the owner of the gun.

A gift card is not as pretty as a nice shiny new gun under the Christmas tree. But that is how many box stores choose to do business these days.

I purchased a handgun for my son a few years ago for his birthday and he was with me. I paid, he filled out the 4473. Absolutely no issues and legal. The feds want to know who is the owner, not who paid.