Drug test to attend homecoming dance?

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  • BehindBlueI's

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    Actually it goes against your point. How is someone using/buying pot different than someone using/buying a hammer or anything else?


    Pretty simply because buying items from criminal enterprises furthers their ability to perform criminal acts. Hammer manufacturers are not murdering each other's hammer salesmen for a slice of that juicy hardware market. People are not being tortured to death for debts owed to hammer manufacturers. Drug cartels and gangs do so routinely, and drug money fuels that crime.

    The "but an item can be misused" is a seperate and distinct argument that is just a red herring to this one. The drug trade creates crime other than drug use simply by it's existence in it's current form giving economic power to criminals. The hardware industry does not.
     

    BigRed

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    State has such a LONG and consistent record of failure. Most everything it sticks its nose into turns to ****.

    I'm shocked at the results of the war on drugs....shocked I tell ya
     

    Knight Rider

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    Pretty simply because buying items from criminal enterprises furthers their ability to perform criminal acts. Hammer manufacturers are not murdering each other's hammer salesmen for a slice of that juicy hardware market. People are not being tortured to death for debts owed to hammer manufacturers. Drug cartels and gangs do so routinely, and drug money fuels that crime.

    The "but an item can be misused" is a seperate and distinct argument that is just a red herring to this one. The drug trade creates crime other than drug use simply by it's existence in it's current form giving economic power to criminals. The hardware industry does not.
    Could that be because hammers are legal?
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Pretty simply because buying items from criminal enterprises furthers their ability to perform criminal acts. Hammer manufacturers are not murdering each other's hammer salesmen for a slice of that juicy hardware market. People are not being tortured to death for debts owed to hammer manufacturers. Drug cartels and gangs do so routinely, and drug money fuels that crime.

    The "but an item can be misused" is a seperate and distinct argument that is just a red herring to this one. The drug trade creates crime other than drug use simply by it's existence in it's current form giving economic power to criminals. The hardware industry does not.
    Partially, yes. There's also no 'hammer culture' that endorses and celebrates violence, no addiction issues where people will screw over their loved ones to get there next hammer, etc.
    How much crime do you see from the sale of alcohol and tobacco? I'm not asking about crimes where the person is drunk, I'm asking about crimes directly related to the manufacturing/distribution/sales of such.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Me after confronting the rainbow shirts...

    iu
    My daughter hates me because of that commercial, well maybe because I bring it up whenever she mentions getting soft serve.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    How much crime do you see from the sale of alcohol and tobacco? I'm not asking about crimes where the person is drunk, I'm asking about crimes directly related to the manufacturing/distribution/sales of such.

    Tobacco, none or almost none.

    Alcohol, not much more, but some. Liqour stores are fairly frequent robbery targets, but I think that's likely a function of hours and ease of access vs the product itself.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Meh. Our mailman drives a delivery vehicle. If he gets attacked by a dog, that's one impressive dog!
    Missed this one.

    Tobacco, none or almost none.

    Alcohol, not much more, but some. Liqour stores are fairly frequent robbery targets, but I think that's likely a function of hours and ease of access vs the product itself.
    So likely not related to alcohol culture and such. Why would other drugs be different in your opinion if they were legalized? You stated the following in reply to the question of could it be related to hammers being legal. Why do you think partially for illicit drugs but not legal drugs?
    Partially, yes. There's also no 'hammer culture' that endorses and celebrates violence, no addiction issues where people will screw over their loved ones to get there next hammer, etc.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Moderately off topic, but I have to ask. I've heard pot head, meth head, coke/crack head. I've never heard someone say heroin head or alcohol head, why is that?
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Missed this one.


    So likely not related to alcohol culture and such. Why would other drugs be different in your opinion if they were legalized? You stated the following in reply to the question of could it be related to hammers being legal. Why do you think partially for illicit drugs but not legal drugs?

    Level of addictiveness, for one. You don't hear of many people prostituting themselves or robbing their elderly parents for cigarettes or beer money. Do you think the same is true for, say, meth? Think of the pharmacy robberies targeting opioid drugs. Look at suicide rates for opioid users, or those with an addiction who are rapidly cut off. Do you think the proportions are the same for people who drink? Or that drinkers, as a whole, are "as addicted" to alcohol as an opioid user is to thier drug of choice? Legal or illegal will not affect that.

    There's more on the cultural side, but I don't think it's a conversation to be had via text based public format communication where nuance is lost and butthurt will invariably occur from some quarter or another. Just not a conversation I wish to pursue at this point.
     

    pmbiker

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    Probably because "drunk" and "junkie" work just fine.

    Got to have some way to be able to look down upon those we think we are superior to......
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    Level of addictiveness, for one. You don't hear of many people prostituting themselves or robbing their elderly parents for cigarettes or beer money. Do you think the same is true for, say, meth? Think of the pharmacy robberies targeting opioid drugs. Look at suicide rates for opioid users, or those with an addiction who are rapidly cut off. Do you think the proportions are the same for people who drink? Or that drinkers, as a whole, are "as addicted" to alcohol as an opioid user is to thier drug of choice? Legal or illegal will not affect that.

    There's more on the cultural side, but I don't think it's a conversation to be had via text based public format communication where nuance is lost and butthurt will invariably occur from some quarter or another. Just not a conversation I wish to pursue at this point.
    I'm just guessing, but I think it's more cost related than addictiveness. For alcohol you can get a 1.75L of vodka at wallyworld for what $10-12? That would last most hardcore alkies at least a day. How long will $10 last a heroin/crack/meth user? Same reasoning applies to robberies, are you going to rob a store that a trunk full of stolen merchandise is going to get you a few hundred or a backpack full several thousand?

    For suicide rates I honestly have no idea, I have known alcoholics who are as addicted as opioid users. Yes I'll agree that opioids maybe more addictive than alcohol though. But I do know people that have/do use opioids recreationaly or medically that aren't addicted. I used to joke that the surgeon that fixed my leg after I broke it had stock in rehab facilities. He was writing me a script for 90 vicodin es every week or more. It got to the point where I was turning him down for calling in refills, and at the beginning he offered stronger meds if they weren't doing the job.

    This went on for a good 3 months. I stopped using them, but I still smoke tobacco. And yes stopping the vicodin caused much less mental/physical problems then when I've tried to stop smoking.

    Cultural side, yeah there is that. And I can understand you not wishing to discuss it.

    Probably because "drunk" and "junkie" work just fine.

    Got to have some way to be able to look down upon those we think we are superior to......
    Stoner works just fine, why pot head? And junkie works okay for meth and coke/crack so...
     

    Johnman98

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    Jan 27, 2021
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    Indianapolis, IN
    New York is trying to legislate passing a **** test to get a carry permit. Ridiculous! There would be riots if **** tests were required for any other rights. Imagine a clean urine is required to voice your freedom of speech or there will be soldiers quartered in your house unless you **** clean. Outrage! I know this will never pass and if it is it will be struck down in the courts. They will try anything to take away the 2nd.
     

    Somemedic

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    I can drive 20 mins east or west and buy some of the most potent THC laden items in the history of man. I also know that in this area a lot of current teacher friends and their significant others head into Michigan wine country almost every weekend for free tours... with dispensaries in close proximity. I'm not here to judge but I see it in my FB feed. If I had to be locked in a room 5 days a week with some of those kids I'd come off the wagon faster than you could say 'pappy vanwinle'. I dont know what their policies are for testing but I'd wager they mostly don't until there's an incident and that seems fair.

    If one had probable cause to have a student take a test I might could get behind it but blanket testing is lazy leadership. Gearing them up to go out into the world to accept the terms of their government because 'well, we test everybody and if youve done nothing there shouldn't be an issue, right?' Breathalyze everyone coming into the dance seems ridiculous as well... just submit to the state since you have nothing to hide unless you're school administration who I know some of which had more than cream in their coffee.

    So what do you tell the kids? It's still no way to reason with a free society. Innocent until proven guilty is a principle we were founded on and it should apply if your 17 or 70.

    And how do you say drugs are bad when Marijuana is demonized in this state but our neighbors on both sides are making ridiculous amounts of money off of it? ules for thee but not for me? Half of them grew up taking Adderall.

    I saw a sign not too long ago in Michigan advertising for a delivery service called 'UberWeed'... what a time to be alive.
     

    NoSaintJoe

    shooter
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    0   0   0
    Sep 22, 2022
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    Elkhart
    How much crime do you see from the sale of alcohol and tobacco? I'm not asking about crimes where the person is drunk, I'm asking about crimes directly related to the manufacturing/distribution/sales of such.
     
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