Do lasers really help

[JCSR]

Let me know when you find actual cases of people being convicted of actual crimes on otherwise good shoots because of an extended slide lock lever or aftermarket sights.

As far as books go...Louis L'amour writes great westerns, but I'm not sure he's witnessed many actual gunfights.

Show me on the doll where you were touched

 

[chipbennett]

I have heard nothing negative about Mr. Ayoob any where else but here. it looks like you did a quick Google search but have not read his books. A little information can be dangerous

The main beef I have had with Mas Ayoob (despite otherwise appreciating what he has had to say) is that he is irrationally anti-OC.

 

[Route 45]

Show me on the doll where you were touched

Uh...that's an odd comment.

Sorry if you feel that I disrespected your man-crush.

Have a nice day.

 

[JCSR]

Uh...that's an odd comment.

Sorry if you feel that I disrespected your man-crush.

Have a nice day.

You never disappoint.

 

[DadSmith]

At 6 to 12 feet you might not have the time to use iron sights. Of course you could just point or hip shoot.

3 yards is very close and on the verge of hip shooting. Especially if the perp is running at you. 3 yards is 3 steps and maybe a half a sec. Unless the perp is out of shape and 400 lbs.

 

[cedartop]

I knew this thread would be entertaining.

 

[flightsimmer]

I knew this thread would be entertaining.

I do my best to entertain.

 

[j706]

The agency I work for authorizes light/ lasers and RDS for duty. With proper training, they are both a game changer. Since being approved, qualification scores have increased a ton. I also notice an increased confidence in guys that are not gun guns and that had previously struggled with shooting.

 

[Mason513]

I have a Ruger LCP with an attached Crimson Trace laser. When I draw the weapon and grip it the laser comes on automatically, no fuss.

The grip button type like this is the way to go. No thinking, just gripping.

 

[jinks]

I have a green Viridian R5 on a Ruger LC9s. The R5 uses a magnet in the holster to switch the laser off and on. The field of the magnet switches the laser off. The R5 came with a plastic holster with a magnet attached, but I purchased a CrossBreed holster setup with a magnet for the R5.

 

[CitizenX]

From armedcitizensnetwork.org​

Gun modification will be used against you in court.

​

Gun Modifications​

​

When a forensic firearms examiner for the state examines a gun used in a shooting, any external modifications made to the gun are listed on the crime lab report given to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor believes that any of these modifications may paint you, the defendant, in a bad light, these findings will be heralded in court. The prosecutor asks the forensic firearms examiner to explain during testimony what they found when they examined the gun, and then asks the examiner to compare your gun to an unaltered, factory stock gun. If you installed different sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide lock/release, or cut the frame down so you could conceal the gun easier, that will be discussed.

The prosecutor will then ask the purpose of these modifications. If your defense attorney is savvy, he or she will object at this point, because your purpose is outside the knowledge of that witness. Only the defendant can testify why he or she made those modifications. An argument will ensue between attorneys with the judge as referee. If the judge is sympathetic to the prosecution (most are, being former prosecutors themselves), the objection will be overruled and the examiner allowed to opine why those modifications may have been made. The questions might go something like this:

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?

A: To make it easier to kill people.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?

A: Because on some guns, the factory magazine release is too small to make it easy to quickly reload the gun and continue firing.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?

A: For the same purpose of an extended magazine release. If the person just got done shooting all the bullets in the magazine and he wanted to quickly get the gun reloaded to continue killing, an extended slide release will save them a whole second as opposed to racking the slide manually. A good shooter can shoot 4 or 5 more bullets in that extra second.

Now, put yourself in the place of a 65-year-old grandmother serving on a jury. She has never shot a gun in her life and sympathizes with the “gun victim” mantra as reported by the anti-gun media and perhaps she even voted for our anti-gun president and vice-president. Do you think this line of questioning might create in her mind a negative opinion about you, the defendant?

Many readers are retorting, “But, Marty, those things are easily explained!” I agree, but must now ask, “Who is going to explain them?” Are you a firearms expert who is accustomed to testifying in court? Do you know how to educate your defense team so they can effectively cross-examine the prosecution’s witness? Probably not. The good news is that if you are a member of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. we can provide those experts to help, but even for our Network members, the best for which we can hope is to neutralize the state’s argument, but the prosecution’s smears upon your character will linger in jurors’ minds.

Up to now, we’ve discussed modifications to gun function only not appearance or style. Adorning your firearms with cutesy little illustrations can only work against you. The only visual modification I support would be to hard chrome or apply another tougher finish than the rust-prone blued finish your gun may have come with.

A carry gun should be all business, not an art project.

What’s the bottom line on gun modifications? Make them sparingly and for a specific purpose that is easily explainable. Other modifications pose such problems as to seriously jeopardize your plea of self defense.

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?
A: The ones I had weren't very accurate. Accuracy is important.
Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?
A: The one I had was too short.
Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?
A: I have a weak thumb. My firearm is of no use if I can't operate it correctly and safely.

This is crap coming from a company trying to instill fear into the ignorant. The only thing important to them is your money.

 

[JeepHammer]

When you AREN'T trained/practiced any add on is a weak link crutch.
Train with sights, learn to hit what you aim at, everything else will fall into place after fundamentals.

There are a few times a laser *Might* help, but it's not going to do a bit of good if you trigger jerk, flinch, etc.

The 'Spray & Pray' guys love lasers, they *Might* get one on target in the 30-50 round magazine dump they love so much, but that's up for debate...

Nothing beats good fundamentals, well aimed shots, building muscle, grip & stance fundamentals, it won't be long before you can more or less hit anything reflex shooting you could with the useful range of a laser on a handgun.
Then it might help in *Some* very specific situations.

 

[JeepHammer]

IR lasers are awesome, slaved with a visible laser. But that’s a niche application.

I think you left something out...
IR laser is ONLY visible with light amplification night vision.
I'd call that a very SMALL niche, practically invisible.

(Invisible, night vision, get it?)

I'd say 99.99% of the time it's unneeded on the unnecessary, or worse yet, useless.
It's a 'Gee Whiz' gadget on a piece of trash used by the untrained and unpracticed.

To each their own I guess, it's their money...

 

[russc2542]

Through countless classes, a few with a laser on a Sig P229, I have come to the realization that lasers are really not for me. The only advantage they might help with is shooting from unorthodox positions where you can not get on your sites.

How is the thread still going after this?

Lasers won't make you more accurate or any faster. Almost any other sighting system is as fast or faster than drawing the gun, finding the laser, moving the laser to the target, fire. Especially in good lighting. They can distract you by wiggling around, getting lost, or being hard to see. In low-light they also give away your position (of course, so does a light)

The benefit is if you can't see or can't line up your sights: hip shots (albeit with the time delay to find the dot), shooting around cover, ???.

IR, NV, etc is outside of the scope here. specialized stuff for special situations.

 

[Butch627]

As someone who is interested in lasers in situations like carjackings where normal gun sighting may be impossible I am surprised as to how much hate is being spewed against lasers. I get that some of you don't like them but don't get why you have to take over the thread stifling any reasonable conversation with the same **** just worded differently post after post. If you don't like them than why do you feel that you have to make everyone hate them also. Start your new thread on why you hate lasers, I promise I won't come in and argue with you lol. Mods should have intervened here a while ago and let this stay on the track it was intended. This thread deserved better.

 

[NHT3]

Lasers or RDS force a target/threat focus VS a front sight focus. Personally I find a RDS to be faster and much more intuitive because I can naturally shoot with both eyes open and focus on the target. Under stress most will focus on the threat not the front sight. There is a learning curve for a RDS where an intuitive laser is pretty much point and click but neither automatically equates to accurate fire. Training and rounds down range is where defending yourself sucessfully starts and ends.

 

[xxxleafybugxxx1]

I've never had any laser that would hold it's zero.

 

[Vigilant]

I've never had any laser that would hold it's zero.

Quit buying Chinese lasers. My Peq-15 does just fine holding zero, get a good ATPIAL or DBAL and they will hold zero. Don’t have any pistol lasers any longer but my X400 didn’t do too bad at holding zero. It just sucked because I didn’t pay the $$’s for a DG switch.

 

[DadSmith]

Quit buying Chinese lasers. My Peq-15 does just fine holding zero, get a good ATPIAL or DBAL and they will hold zero. Don’t have any pistol lasers any longer but my X400 didn’t do too bad at holding zero. It just sucked because I didn’t pay the $$’s for a DG switch.

Is Crimson Trace lasers Chinese or American made?

Iirc Viridian is American made.

 

[flightsimmer]

Is Crimson Trace lasers Chinese or American made?

Iirc Viridian is American made.

Yes, they are American made in Wilsonville, Oregon.