Do lasers really help

[Angrysauce]

Yep, they'll sure ask that too. They will probably check you're INGO posts as well. I want every advantage in court. You do you.

You seem pretty sure that you'll wind up in court, are you prepared for that to be used against you in court?

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Was looking at getting a new carry 9mm and just want to know how important lasers are for helping with accurate targeting

I have found they help tremendously in call of duty.

 

[flightsimmer]

I've been there and done that, I had no problem with the police or the prosecutor.
Of course your mileage may vary.

 

[natdscott]

At 6 to 12 feet you might not have the time to use iron sights. Of course you could just point or hip shoot.

At that distance, the slide is a sight.

 

[natdscott]

I've been there and done that, I had no problem with the police or the prosecutor.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Wait. What have you “been there and done”?

 

[JCSR]

I've been there and done that, I had no problem with the police or the prosecutor.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Maybe I'm just over-thinking things. Really glad it worked out for you. Have you shared your story on INGO? I would be very interested in the details if you don't mind.

 

[MCgrease08]

This thread has drifted so far off course.

Welcome to .

This happens a lot.

 

[Route 45]

Yep, they'll sure ask that too. They will probably check you're INGO posts as well. I want every advantage in court. You do you.

If "they" are going to check INGO posts, you'd better hope and pray you never have to shoot anyone darker than about medium taupe.

 

[JCSR]

If "they" are going to check INGO posts, you'd better hope and pray you never have to shoot anyone darker than about medium taupe.

Kut that out now!

 

[Vigilant]

Yes but a aggressive prosecutor will go after it in court. They also go after hollow-point ammo even though it's safer in many ways. Reading Ayoob's book opened my eyes.

Yes, and Ayoob has made a mint scaring people into buying his book and classes. Yet, there seems to be very little actual case law with convictions?

 

[Vigilant]

Also, read his older articles with the Beretta 92, 20 rd mag, light, as his home defense gun? Adding a laser to something youve already put a headlamp, and monster killer bullet hose magazine on is what....

 

[jsx1043]

Lasers on sharks is sooo Austin Powers, you need feet on sharks, cuz erry body knows Land Sharks is some bad mother truckers!

This was my shark with feet. His name was Eik (van’t Merlebosch). I never put a laser on his head. (Man, now that I think about it, I wish I would have!)

 

[JCSR]

Yes, and Ayoob has made a mint scaring people into buying his book and classes. Yet, there seems to be very little actual case law with convictions?

So he is a fraud, money grabber and a liar? I had never heard that. Learn something everyday I guess.

 

[Route 45]

So he is a fraud, money grabber and a liar? I had never heard that. Learn something everyday I guess.

He's a salesman. Primarily selling himself, from what I can tell. Bachelor's degree in business, then a part-time police officer in Podunk, NH for several years while he volunteered for every LE training class he could get. Is apparently a pretty good pistol shot and has won several matches. Finally amassed enough training to become an instructor himself and has spent several years as a gun magazine editor, columnist and author of various articles and books.

Not sure where he got all of his legal experience, since he is not an attorney himself, and I can't imagine there's a huge caseload of people charged with defensive use of modified weapons in his former jurisdiction. (He's retired) Which is, by the way, Grantham NH, population 2,949. Mean streets, I'm sure. Maybe he reads a lot, as he would have the time for it, not being a full time cop. Wonder how much actual violent crime scene, forensic and court room experience he has as an involved party, and not a third party lookie-loo.

He might be a halfway decent instructor, and can certainly write a book, but how much is lived experience and how much is second-hand regurgitation?

But all that aside, if he has seen actual convictions of someone who went to prison in an otherwise good shoot, because they had an extended slide release or night sights on their pistol, I sure would like to know about it.

In the meantime...fear sells. Good thing he knows a guy who can help.

 

[flightsimmer]

At that distance, the slide is a sight.

Yes it is.

 

[flightsimmer]

Wait. What have you “been there and done”?

I shot a prowler on my property.

 

[JCSR]

He's a salesman. Primarily selling himself, from what I can tell. Bachelor's degree in business, then a part-time police officer in Podunk, NH for several years while he volunteered for every LE training class he could get. Is apparently a pretty good pistol shot and has won several matches. Finally amassed enough training to become an instructor himself and has spent several years as a gun magazine editor, columnist and author of various articles and books.

Not sure where he got all of his legal experience, since he is not an attorney himself, and I can't imagine there's a huge caseload of people charged with defensive use of modified weapons in his former jurisdiction. (He's retired) Which is, by the way, Grantham NH, population 2,949. Mean streets, I'm sure. Maybe he reads a lot, as he would have the time for it, not being a full time cop. Wonder how much actual violent crime scene, forensic and court room experience he has as an involved party, and not a third party lookie-loo.

He might be a halfway decent instructor, and can certainly write a book, but how much is lived experience and how much is second-hand regurgitation?

But all that aside, if he has seen actual convictions of someone who went to prison in an otherwise good shoot, because they had an extended slide release or night sights on their pistol, I sure would like to know about it.

In the meantime...fear sells. Good thing he knows a guy who can help

I have heard nothing negative about Mr. Ayoob any where else but here. it looks like you did a quick Google search but have not read his books. A little information can be dangerous

 

[JCSR]

I shot a prowler on my property.

Would you feels comfortable telling your story? Not here of course but in a new thread. I'm sure we could all learn something.

 

[Route 45]

I have heard nothing negative about Mr. Ayoob any where else but here. it looks like you did a quick Google search but have not read his books. A little information can be dangerous

Let me know when you find actual cases of people being convicted of actual crimes on otherwise good shoots because of an extended slide lock lever or aftermarket sights.

As far as books go...Louis L'amour writes great westerns, but I'm not sure he's witnessed many actual gunfights.

 

[chipbennett]

From armedcitizensnetwork.org​

Gun modification will be used against you in court.

​

Gun Modifications​

​

When a forensic firearms examiner for the state examines a gun used in a shooting, any external modifications made to the gun are listed on the crime lab report given to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor believes that any of these modifications may paint you, the defendant, in a bad light, these findings will be heralded in court. The prosecutor asks the forensic firearms examiner to explain during testimony what they found when they examined the gun, and then asks the examiner to compare your gun to an unaltered, factory stock gun. If you installed different sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide lock/release, or cut the frame down so you could conceal the gun easier, that will be discussed.

The prosecutor will then ask the purpose of these modifications. If your defense attorney is savvy, he or she will object at this point, because your purpose is outside the knowledge of that witness. Only the defendant can testify why he or she made those modifications. An argument will ensue between attorneys with the judge as referee. If the judge is sympathetic to the prosecution (most are, being former prosecutors themselves), the objection will be overruled and the examiner allowed to opine why those modifications may have been made. The questions might go something like this:

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?

A: To make it easier to kill people.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?

A: Because on some guns, the factory magazine release is too small to make it easy to quickly reload the gun and continue firing.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?

A: For the same purpose of an extended magazine release. If the person just got done shooting all the bullets in the magazine and he wanted to quickly get the gun reloaded to continue killing, an extended slide release will save them a whole second as opposed to racking the slide manually. A good shooter can shoot 4 or 5 more bullets in that extra second.

Now, put yourself in the place of a 65-year-old grandmother serving on a jury. She has never shot a gun in her life and sympathizes with the “gun victim” mantra as reported by the anti-gun media and perhaps she even voted for our anti-gun president and vice-president. Do you think this line of questioning might create in her mind a negative opinion about you, the defendant?

Many readers are retorting, “But, Marty, those things are easily explained!” I agree, but must now ask, “Who is going to explain them?” Are you a firearms expert who is accustomed to testifying in court? Do you know how to educate your defense team so they can effectively cross-examine the prosecution’s witness? Probably not. The good news is that if you are a member of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. we can provide those experts to help, but even for our Network members, the best for which we can hope is to neutralize the state’s argument, but the prosecution’s smears upon your character will linger in jurors’ minds.

Up to now, we’ve discussed modifications to gun function only not appearance or style. Adorning your firearms with cutesy little illustrations can only work against you. The only visual modification I support would be to hard chrome or apply another tougher finish than the rust-prone blued finish your gun may have come with.

A carry gun should be all business, not an art project.

What’s the bottom line on gun modifications? Make them sparingly and for a specific purpose that is easily explainable. Other modifications pose such problems as to seriously jeopardize your plea of self defense.

This reads as a "consider the source" post. It is marketing scare material, designed to get people to purchase carry insurance. Now, carry insurance is good; I maintain a policy. But I can't ignore the obvious bias.