Do lasers really help

[EyeCarry]

...Many are good only for short distances like say up to 7 yards ...

Disagree.
Ask any Steel Challenge competitor. 10" plates at 18 yards...not a problem.

 

[flightsimmer]

Disagree.
Ask any Steel Challenge competitor. 8" plates at 18 yards...not a problem.

Under stress of a potential gun fight you would probably be shaking to much.

 

[JCSR]

And just why is that?

From armedcitizensnetwork.org​

Gun modification will be used against you in court.

​

Gun Modifications
​

When a forensic firearms examiner for the state examines a gun used in a shooting, any external modifications made to the gun are listed on the crime lab report given to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor believes that any of these modifications may paint you, the defendant, in a bad light, these findings will be heralded in court. The prosecutor asks the forensic firearms examiner to explain during testimony what they found when they examined the gun, and then asks the examiner to compare your gun to an unaltered, factory stock gun. If you installed different sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide lock/release, or cut the frame down so you could conceal the gun easier, that will be discussed.

The prosecutor will then ask the purpose of these modifications. If your defense attorney is savvy, he or she will object at this point, because your purpose is outside the knowledge of that witness. Only the defendant can testify why he or she made those modifications. An argument will ensue between attorneys with the judge as referee. If the judge is sympathetic to the prosecution (most are, being former prosecutors themselves), the objection will be overruled and the examiner allowed to opine why those modifications may have been made. The questions might go something like this:

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?

A: To make it easier to kill people.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?

A: Because on some guns, the factory magazine release is too small to make it easy to quickly reload the gun and continue firing.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?

A: For the same purpose of an extended magazine release. If the person just got done shooting all the bullets in the magazine and he wanted to quickly get the gun reloaded to continue killing, an extended slide release will save them a whole second as opposed to racking the slide manually. A good shooter can shoot 4 or 5 more bullets in that extra second.

Now, put yourself in the place of a 65-year-old grandmother serving on a jury. She has never shot a gun in her life and sympathizes with the “gun victim” mantra as reported by the anti-gun media and perhaps she even voted for our anti-gun president and vice-president. Do you think this line of questioning might create in her mind a negative opinion about you, the defendant?

Many readers are retorting, “But, Marty, those things are easily explained!” I agree, but must now ask, “Who is going to explain them?” Are you a firearms expert who is accustomed to testifying in court? Do you know how to educate your defense team so they can effectively cross-examine the prosecution’s witness? Probably not. The good news is that if you are a member of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. we can provide those experts to help, but even for our Network members, the best for which we can hope is to neutralize the state’s argument, but the prosecution’s smears upon your character will linger in jurors’ minds.

Up to now, we’ve discussed modifications to gun function only not appearance or style. Adorning your firearms with cutesy little illustrations can only work against you. The only visual modification I support would be to hard chrome or apply another tougher finish than the rust-prone blued finish your gun may have come with.

A carry gun should be all business, not an art project.

What’s the bottom line on gun modifications? Make them sparingly and for a specific purpose that is easily explainable. Other modifications pose such problems as to seriously jeopardize your plea of self defense.

 

[gryphnrider]

From armedcitizensnetwork.org​

Gun modification will be used against you in court.

​

Gun Modifications​

​

When a forensic firearms examiner for the state examines a gun used in a shooting, any external modifications made to the gun are listed on the crime lab report given to the prosecutor. If the prosecutor believes that any of these modifications may paint you, the defendant, in a bad light, these findings will be heralded in court. The prosecutor asks the forensic firearms examiner to explain during testimony what they found when they examined the gun, and then asks the examiner to compare your gun to an unaltered, factory stock gun. If you installed different sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide lock/release, or cut the frame down so you could conceal the gun easier, that will be discussed.

The prosecutor will then ask the purpose of these modifications. If your defense attorney is savvy, he or she will object at this point, because your purpose is outside the knowledge of that witness. Only the defendant can testify why he or she made those modifications. An argument will ensue between attorneys with the judge as referee. If the judge is sympathetic to the prosecution (most are, being former prosecutors themselves), the objection will be overruled and the examiner allowed to opine why those modifications may have been made. The questions might go something like this:

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?

A: To make it easier to kill people.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?

A: Because on some guns, the factory magazine release is too small to make it easy to quickly reload the gun and continue firing.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?

A: For the same purpose of an extended magazine release. If the person just got done shooting all the bullets in the magazine and he wanted to quickly get the gun reloaded to continue killing, an extended slide release will save them a whole second as opposed to racking the slide manually. A good shooter can shoot 4 or 5 more bullets in that extra second.

Now, put yourself in the place of a 65-year-old grandmother serving on a jury. She has never shot a gun in her life and sympathizes with the “gun victim” mantra as reported by the anti-gun media and perhaps she even voted for our anti-gun president and vice-president. Do you think this line of questioning might create in her mind a negative opinion about you, the defendant?

Many readers are retorting, “But, Marty, those things are easily explained!” I agree, but must now ask, “Who is going to explain them?” Are you a firearms expert who is accustomed to testifying in court? Do you know how to educate your defense team so they can effectively cross-examine the prosecution’s witness? Probably not. The good news is that if you are a member of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, Inc. we can provide those experts to help, but even for our Network members, the best for which we can hope is to neutralize the state’s argument, but the prosecution’s smears upon your character will linger in jurors’ minds.

Up to now, we’ve discussed modifications to gun function only not appearance or style. Adorning your firearms with cutesy little illustrations can only work against you. The only visual modification I support would be to hard chrome or apply another tougher finish than the rust-prone blued finish your gun may have come with.

A carry gun should be all business, not an art project.

What’s the bottom line on gun modifications? Make them sparingly and for a specific purpose that is easily explainable. Other modifications pose such problems as to seriously jeopardize your plea of self defense.

Wow man seriously. It is a self defense weapon.

 

[gryphnrider]

I was never sold on the idea until I actually used one. I bought a ‘shield’ with one on it, and swapped my EDC holster so I could accommodate and become more proficient with it. With some practice, I’m able to flick it on during my draw and it helps me figure out what I’m potentially shooting at a lot faster than trying to pick up the sights.

Thanks

 

[gryphnrider]

You'll definitely see just how shaky your hold is, and probably spend more time finding the dot with your eye in a scenario that isn't uniformly lit and black and white, like an indoor shooting range. Highly defined iron sights or red dot would be IMO a better option.

Thank you

 

[gryphnrider]

I tried a laser on my pistol but found my eyes still locked onto the front sight and not the laser. I suggest getting a good night sight for the front sight of your handgun.

I have never had truly good front sights I will have to upgrade

 

[gryphnrider]

Through countless classes, a few with a laser on a Sig P229, I have come to the realization that lasers are really not for me. The only advantage they might help with is shooting from unorthodox positions where you can not get on your sites.

Thanks

 

[gryphnrider]

At 6 to 12 feet you might not have the time to use iron sights. Of course you could just point or hip shoot.

Thanks

 

[jsx1043]

I found that once I attached lasers to the heads of my sharks that their sinister man-killingness went up by at least a magnitude.

 

[JHB]

Last I looked at the rules a laser in steel challenge was illegal.

 

[flightsimmer]

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?
A: Ageing eyesight.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?
A: My fingers are too short.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?
A: Again, my fingers are too short.

Q: Why did you make changes to the gun?
A: I didn't, it came that way.

 

[gryphnrider]

I found that once I attached lasers to the heads of my sharks that their sinister man-killingness went up by at least a magnitude.

Fricking sharks with lasers

 

[gryphnrider]

Q: Why do people put different sights on guns?
A: Ageing eyesight.

Q: Why do people put extended magazine releases on guns?
A: My fingers are too short.

Q: Why might a person put an extended slide release on a gun?
A: Again, my fingers are too short.

Q: Why did you make changes to the gun?
A: I didn't, it came that way.

Exactly

 

[gryphnrider]

Last I looked at the rules a laser in steel challenge was illegal.

I'm no marksman doing challenges

 

[JCSR]

Wow man seriously. It is a self defense weapon.

Yes it's damn serious and a prosecutor will turn it into a weapon to kill. There is a lot of good info out there if you chose to read it. I recommend "Deadly Force" Understanding your right to self defense. by Massad Ayoob.

 

[Angrysauce]

If it's not an IR laser under nods it's entirely useless and a mall ninja accessory. If you can buy it at a Walmart or local sporting goods store it's useless.

 

[MCgrease08]

If it's not an IR laser under nods it's entirely useless and a mall ninja accessory. If you can buy it at a Walmart or local sporting goods store it's useless.

 

[Angrysauce]

If you're close enough to use a laser, you are perfectly capable of point shooting.
If you're over the hill and the eyes aren't picking up the front site like they used to, get a brighter front site or a decent optic.
Visible lasers are gimmicky pieces of chinesium garbage, meant for scrambling the brains of house cats.

 

[EyeCarry]

Last I looked at the rules a laser in steel challenge was illegal.

BIG whoops on my part

Last I looked at the rules a laser in steel challenge was illegal.

BIG whoops on my part. My brain jumped from laser to red dot. Apologies to the thread participants.