Do East Chicago & Gary have local laws that aren't preempted?

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Although I'm a fairly longtime member here, I mostly frequent OpenCarry.org these days.

There's an old thread (from 2011) on OCDO (OpenCarry Dot Org) where the OP asserted that (at least at that time?) E. Chicago & Gary had some laws not subject to preemption.

Would you fellows take a look at the post, copied below, and either post over there, or post here, and I will re-post it on OCDO, thanking the members here for their help?

THANK YOU.

Here's the thread: Indiana Carry Laws


Below is the post:

I know I know everyone hates wikipedia, but these laws are true as I know the laws, and they put it in easy terms so heres a qoute from the web based Wikipedia:

Legislature Alert!!

As of today March 16th there are two main bills that will change these laws. HB1540 and SB292 Will make it so you can carry in or on any property that is not a school or court house. That would effect the the paragraphs in ( )


(Indiana[111] has enacted state preemption of firearm laws. However, local laws passed before January 1, 1994[112] or for certain narrowly defined emergency situations are valid. East Chicago and Gary have local laws that still apply. Governing units may restrict firearms possession on public property. )

( Additionally, private businesses may also restrict (or forbid) firearms on their properties. However a 2010 law prohibits employers from discharging employees for in-vehicle firearms possession on business property. South Bend gun laws are not valid in the state of Indiana as they were passed on February 21, 1994[113] and therefore were passed after the state preemption.)

Indiana is a "shall issue" state for the License To Carry a Handgun.[114] The Indiana license to carry allows both open and concealed carry. Most Indiana residents confuse the license to carry a handgun with a CCW. A license to carry will be issued to individuals age 18 or older who meet a number of legal requirements. Grounds for disqualification include a conviction for a felony or for misdemeanor domestic battery. A license can also be denied if the applicant has been arrested for a violent crime and "a court has found probable cause to believe that the person committed the offense charged". Documented substance abuse is a disqualifier, as is documented evidence of any given person's "propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct."

Application for a license must be made to the local police department, or absent that to the county police department. Four-year and lifetime permits are issued for Indiana residents. Out-of-state residents may only be issued four-year permits.

It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon, even sporting arms, on school property or on a school bus, on an airplane or in the controlled section of an airport, on a riverboat gambling cruise, or at the Indiana State Fair. Lawful gun owners may have guns in their vehicles on school property provided the driver is only transporting someone to, or from, a school event.

Indiana honors CCW licenses issued by every state (Illinois and Wisconsin do not issue CCW licenses), generally including non-resident licenses. However, Indiana residents, or non-residents with a "regular place of business" in Indiana, must obtain an Indiana license.

Firearms dealers or private individuals may not sell any firearm to someone less than 18 years old, or less than 23 years old if the buyer was "adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult", or to a person who is mentally incompetent or is a drug or alcohol abuser. Possession of automatic weapons by individuals or dealers who have obtained the appropriate federal license is permitted.

Short barreled shotguns (barrels under 18", OAL less than 26" length), are absolutely prohibited. It appears that all other NFA (National Firearms Act, q.v.) regulated weapons and devices are legal in Indiana.

Handgun cartridges that have "a projectile that has a metal core and an outer coating of plastic" are prohibited.

Indiana law stands mute vis-à-vis long gun carry. There are some Department of Natural Resources rules, but these only apply on DNR property. Generally speaking, possession of long guns is legal whether the gun is either on one's person or in one's vehicle, loaded or not.

Indiana provides lawsuit protection to law abiding manufacturers, sellers, and trade associations for the misuse of firearms by third parties. Lawsuits are permitted for cases of damage or injury caused by defective firearms or ammunition, or breach of contract or warranty


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...state)#Indiana
 

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Good questions! I am not a lawyer, but I'll go through as best I can and see if I can help.

Although I'm a fairly longtime member here, I mostly frequent OpenCarry.org these days.

There's an old thread (from 2011) on OCDO (OpenCarry Dot Org) where the OP asserted that (at least at that time?) E. Chicago & Gary had some laws not subject to preemption.

Would you fellows take a look at the post, copied below, and either post over there, or post here, and I will re-post it on OCDO, thanking the members here for their help?

THANK YOU.

Here's the thread: Indiana Carry Laws


Below is the post:

I know I know everyone hates wikipedia, but these laws are true as I know the laws, and they put it in easy terms so heres a qoute from the web based Wikipedia:

Legislature Alert!!

As of today March 16th there are two main bills that will change these laws. HB1540 and SB292 Will make it so you can carry in or on any property that is not a school or court house. That would effect the the paragraphs in ( )
SEA 292 passed the legislature and became law. It's in IC 35-47-11.1 now. That was in 2011.
(Indiana[111] has enacted state preemption of firearm laws. However, local laws passed before January 1, 1994[112] or for certain narrowly defined emergency situations are valid. East Chicago and Gary have local laws that still apply. Governing units may restrict firearms possession on public property. )
There are no individual municipalities that are exempted. Indeed, there cannot be, by name. They can identify areas by other designators, for example, a "public hospital corporation containing a secure correctional health unit that is staffed by a law enforcement officer twenty-four (24) hours a day". At the time, that meant "Wishard", as it was the only such in the state when that was written.
( Additionally, private businesses may also restrict (or forbid) firearms on their properties. However a 2010 law prohibits employers from discharging employees for in-vehicle firearms possession on business property. South Bend gun laws are not valid in the state of Indiana as they were passed on February 21, 1994[113] and therefore were passed after the state preemption.)
Private businesses can still disallow the carry of firearms on their property. They can also prohibit the wearing of a purple shirt, the carry of picket signs, the possession of a Bible or Koran, or the walking of a dog, or most other actions. That is, they can identify the people doing those things as "trespassing" and may have them removed. It's not a "gun law". but one of property rights- the owner of a property can define who and what actions he or she permits there, other than federal discrimination laws. Other than that, such prohibitions have no force of law.
Indiana is a "shall issue" state for the License To Carry a Handgun.[114] The Indiana license to carry allows both open and concealed carry. Most Indiana residents confuse the license to carry a handgun with a CCW. A license to carry will be issued to individuals age 18 or older who meet a number of legal requirements. Grounds for disqualification include a conviction for a felony or for misdemeanor domestic battery. A license can also be denied if the applicant has been arrested for a violent crime and "a court has found probable cause to believe that the person committed the offense charged". Documented substance abuse is a disqualifier, as is documented evidence of any given person's "propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct."

Application for a license must be made to the local police department, or absent that to the county police department. Four-year and lifetime permits are issued for Indiana residents. Out-of-state residents may only be issued four-year permits.

It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon, even sporting arms, on school property or on a school bus, on an airplane or in the controlled section of an airport, on a riverboat gambling cruise, or at the Indiana State Fair. Lawful gun owners may have guns in their vehicles on school property provided the driver is only transporting someone to, or from, a school event.
The above has changed (IC 34-28-7, if memory serves) and now you can lawfully leave your gun in your car on school property, as long as the vehicle is locked and the gun is not visible from outside.
Indiana honors CCW licenses issued by every state (Illinois and Wisconsin do not issue CCW licenses), generally including non-resident licenses. However, Indiana residents, or non-residents with a "regular place of business" in Indiana, must obtain an Indiana license.
IL and WI now issue some form of permission slip. The only state that does not is Vermont, which never has, and has Constitutional Carry.
Firearms dealers or private individuals may not sell any firearm to someone less than 18 years old, or less than 23 years old if the buyer was "adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult", or to a person who is mentally incompetent or is a drug or alcohol abuser. Possession of automatic weapons by individuals or dealers who have obtained the appropriate federal license is permitted.

Short barreled shotguns (barrels under 18", OAL less than 26" length), are absolutely prohibited. It appears that all other NFA (National Firearms Act, q.v.) regulated weapons and devices are legal in Indiana.
This is no longer prohibited. SBS are lawful with federal tax stamp. (SEA 433 (2015))
Handgun cartridges that have "a projectile that has a metal core and an outer coating of plastic" are prohibited.

Indiana law stands mute vis-à-vis long gun carry. There are some Department of Natural Resources rules, but these only apply on DNR property. Generally speaking, possession of long guns is legal whether the gun is either on one's person or in one's vehicle, loaded or not.

Indiana provides lawsuit protection to law abiding manufacturers, sellers, and trade associations for the misuse of firearms by third parties. Lawsuits are permitted for cases of damage or injury caused by defective firearms or ammunition, or breach of contract or warranty


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...state)#Indiana

Hope this has been helpful. We do have some very good laws here. We still have some work to do on the laws that aren't so good, such as the one that makes it a criminal act to carry a handgun without some governmentally-issued license or permit allowing it. I'd also like to see governmental so-called "gun free zones" which only protect those intent on mass-murder, be outlawed at the state and lower levels.

Blessings,
Bill
 

T.Lex

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Also, certain limitations are allowed. If the previous limitations are the "good" kind, they are likely still in effect. Post-Dykstra, I don't think municipalities need to re-adopt legitimate restrictions.
 

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Good questions! I am not a lawyer, but I'll go through as best I can and see if I can help.

SEA 292 passed the legislature and became law. It's in IC 35-47-11.1 now. That was in 2011. There are no individual municipalities that are exempted. Indeed, there cannot be, by name. They can identify areas by other designators, for example, a "public hospital corporation containing a secure correctional health unit that is staffed by a law enforcement officer twenty-four (24) hours a day". At the time, that meant "Wishard", as it was the only such in the state when that was written. Private businesses can still disallow the carry of firearms on their property. They can also prohibit the wearing of a purple shirt, the carry of picket signs, the possession of a Bible or Koran, or the walking of a dog, or most other actions. That is, they can identify the people doing those things as "trespassing" and may have them removed. It's not a "gun law". but one of property rights- the owner of a property can define who and what actions he or she permits there, other than federal discrimination laws. Other than that, such prohibitions have no force of law.The above has changed (IC 34-28-7, if memory serves) and now you can lawfully leave your gun in your car on school property, as long as the vehicle is locked and the gun is not visible from outside.IL and WI now issue some form of permission slip. The only state that does not is Vermont, which never has, and has Constitutional Carry.This is no longer prohibited. SBS are lawful with federal tax stamp. (SEA 433 (2015))

Hope this has been helpful. We do have some very good laws here. We still have some work to do on the laws that aren't so good, such as the one that makes it a criminal act to carry a handgun without some governmentally-issued license or permit allowing it. I'd also like to see governmental so-called "gun free zones" which only protect those intent on mass-murder, be outlawed at the state and lower levels.

Blessings,
Bill
Thank you for the detailed and interesting reply, and thanks also to Kirk Freeman & T. Lex for their further analysis of things.


No.

Remember, a la Dykstra, Gary and East Chicago need not repeal them but their local ordinances are void as of 2011.


Also, certain limitations are allowed. If the previous limitations are the "good" kind, they are likely still in effect. Post-Dykstra, I don't think municipalities need to re-adopt legitimate restrictions.

Although there is clearly more to the OP's question on OCDO, let me focus on the state preemption part.

I understand the part about preemption not being allowed to be diminished by calling out specific cities by name - so IF E. Chicago & Gary can have their own (more restrictive) laws, they can't have them by virtue of being specifically named as having such authority.

What I'm not clear on is the "IF" part.

In apparent contrast to what the poster on OCDO asserts: "However, local laws passed before January 1, 1994[112] or for certain narrowly defined emergency situations are valid. East Chicago and Gary have local laws that still apply.", Kirk Freeman says that Indiana's 2011 law wipes away local ordinances. Great!

Case closed - or maybe not, because T. Rex says that there are "good" limitations that may still apply, even in the face of the 2011 law.

SO... Are you all in agreement that 1) pre-1/1/94 laws are preempted, 2) EXCEPT FOR "certain narrowly defined emergency situations" or somesuch - and if so, what kind of restrictions fit that bill?

Thanks again.
 

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Bill of Rights,

I would add to your comment about employers/employees.
Employees may have a gun in a parking lot (with certain exemptions)
 

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SO... Are you all in agreement that 1) pre-1/1/94 laws are preempted, 2) EXCEPT FOR "certain narrowly defined emergency situations" or somesuch - and if so, what kind of restrictions fit that bill?

What you're looking for are the exceptions in IC 35–47–11.1–4.
https://iga.in.gov/static-documents/8/a/0/b/8a0b81bc/TITLE35_AR47_ch11.1.pdf

Zoning for businesses like gun ranges, buildings with courtrooms can be prohibited, prohibition of displaying firearms at public meetings, prohibition in certain hospitals, as a condition of probation, events where public property is being leased, and certain other restrictions are all ok. If they were enacted prior to 2011, they are probably still ok if they fit the law's parameters. If they do not, they are void, even if they are still on the books.
 

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Thank you for the detailed and interesting reply, and thanks also to Kirk Freeman & T. Lex for their further analysis of things.







Although there is clearly more to the OP's question on OCDO, let me focus on the state preemption part.

I understand the part about preemption not being allowed to be diminished by calling out specific cities by name - so IF E. Chicago & Gary can have their own (more restrictive) laws, they can't have them by virtue of being specifically named as having such authority.

What I'm not clear on is the "IF" part.

In apparent contrast to what the poster on OCDO asserts: "However, local laws passed before January 1, 1994[112] or for certain narrowly defined emergency situations are valid. East Chicago and Gary have local laws that still apply.", Kirk Freeman says that Indiana's 2011 law wipes away local ordinances. Great!

Case closed - or maybe not, because T. Rex says that there are "good" limitations that may still apply, even in the face of the 2011 law.

SO... Are you all in agreement that 1) pre-1/1/94 laws are preempted, 2) EXCEPT FOR "certain narrowly defined emergency situations" or somesuch - and if so, what kind of restrictions fit that bill?

Thanks again.

I must apologize. I thought I'd included a link to the text of the law. I didn't do so. Indiana Code 2016 - Indiana General Assembly, 2016 Session

The 1994 date, as I understand it, is now meaningless, due to IC 35-47-11.1-3

IC 35-47-11.1-3 Voidance of political subdivision ordinances, measures,
enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority
Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule,
or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political
subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision
acting in an official capacity:
(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011;
and
(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of
this chapter;
is void.
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.


Bill of Rights,

I would add to your comment about employers/employees.
Employees may have a gun in a parking lot (with certain exemptions)

Truth: IC 34-28-7

Thanks for pointing it out. OP, an article from 2011 is, as you see, hardly an accurate source. Our laws have changed much, and much for the better. We still, as I said, have some work to do, but many restrictions have gone away in a short time.

Blessings,
Bill
 

jedi

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East chicago still has on their local ordinance a ban on "assault riffels" which is null and void due to the IN prempt law.
 

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Thanks again to all of you for the follow-up. I'll post a summary on OCDO, and link to this thread for those who may want to follow-up further.

You've all been a GREAT help!
 

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