DNR begins $30 Million Monon South Trail Development

[n9tkf]

Additional info. CSX filed to abandon the ROW in 2018, but it has been extended due to New Albany and Radius Indiana wanting to use it for trail use. The deadline to reach an agreement is February 18, 2023 unless extended again under extraordinary circumstances. TSB Docket AB_55_775x. Document attached.

Seems to me if you are for or against maybe contacting Radius Indiana or New Albany would do more good than the DNR or Governor since they are the negotiating parties. Just my thoughts. View attachment 51424(1).pdf

 

[Ingomike]

Additional info. CSX filed to abandon the ROW in 2018, but it has been extended due to New Albany and Radius Indiana wanting to use it for trail use. The deadline to reach an agreement is February 18, 2023 unless extended again under extraordinary circumstances. TSB Docket AB_55_775x. Document attached.

Seems to me if you are for or against maybe contacting Radius Indiana or New Albany would do more good than the DNR or Governor since they are the negotiating parties. Just my thoughts. View attachment 251912

At the end of the day this really does not matter to those proposing the trail, it only matters for who will get the money, because those building the trail will simply use eminent domain to obtain the right of way. Those fighting it may delay it a bit, but from what I have seen, the stress of fighting the losing battle is worse than the trail itself.

 

[ancjr]

At the end of the day this really does not matter to those proposing the trail, it only matters for who will get the money, because those building the trail will simply use eminent domain to obtain the right of way. Those fighting it may delay it a bit, but from what I have seen, the stress of fighting the losing battle is worse than the trail itself.

I don't know if he will or not in this case, but I do know the same God that was able to halt the construction of the Tower of Babel.

 

[n9tkf]

At the end of the day this really does not matter to those proposing the trail, it only matters for who will get the money, because those building the trail will simply use eminent domain to obtain the right of way. Those fighting it may delay it a bit, but from what I have seen, the stress of fighting the losing battle is worse than the trail itself.

If CSX and the trail operator come to terms then the trail operator would have the rights to the ROW??

No different than another RR taking over operations and securing the ROW from the previous operator. Not sure why they would need Eminent Domain. Since CSX hasn't abandoned it yet, the ROW is still with CSX.

I have no interest in the project but will ride it if it comes to fruition while I am still living. Our county could use some of the $30 million for infrastructure improvement.

 

[Ingomike]

If CSX and the trail operator come to terms then the trail operator would have the rights to the ROW??

No different than another RR taking over operations and securing the ROW from the previous operator. Not sure why they would need Eminent Domain. Since CSX hasn't abandoned it yet, the ROW is still with CSX.

I have no interest in the project but will ride it if it comes to fruition while I am still living. Our county could use some of the $30 million for infrastructure improvement.

I can only speak to what I have seen. Indy obtained the Monon directly from the railroad but before other areas could proceed similarly the landowners filed suits claiming ownership. The cities then used eminent domain to obtain the right of way, put the money in escrow with the courts deciding ROW and proceeded. I believe there were lawsuits in Indy after the fact.

There are several ways the RR got ROW across the state, so there will be no single solution for resolution of who receives the money for that ROW.

 

[n9tkf]

I can only speak to what I have seen. Indy obtained the Monon directly from the railroad but before other areas could proceed similarly the landowners filed suits claiming ownership. The cities then used eminent domain to obtain the right of way, put the money in escrow with the courts deciding ROW and proceeded. I believe there were lawsuits in Indy after the fact.

There are several ways the RR got ROW across the state, so there will be no single solution for resolution of who receives the money for that ROW.

Do you know the outcome of any of the lawsuits?

 

[Ingomike]

Do you know the outcome of any of the lawsuits?

My recollection was it was a parcel by parcel decision, the RR prevailed in some adjoiners in others.

 

[JTKelly]

Crime on the rails to trails Indianapolis

How Dangerous Are Indianapolis’ Public Trails? | Doehrman Buba Ring

What You Need to Know Before Your Next Bike Ride or Run The public walking trails in Indianapolis are the result of tens of millions of dollars in taxpayer investment, and they’re responsible for getting millions of residents and tourists up off the couch and on their feet each year. The trails...

www.tortslaw.com

 

[JTKelly]

If CSX and the trail operator come to terms then the trail operator would have the rights to the ROW??

No different than another RR taking over operations and securing the ROW from the previous operator. Not sure why they would need Eminent Domain. Since CSX hasn't abandoned it yet, the ROW is still with CSX.

I have no interest in the project but will ride it if it comes to fruition while I am still living. Our county could use some of the $30 million for infrastructure improvement.

If is not CSX to give away to someone else if the agreement was to go back to the adjoining land owner when abandon.

I'd like to see Perdu build a 20 mile long poultry barn on a free ROW right through the middle of Indianapolis.

 

[ancjr]

I'd much rather the trains start running again, but people voted for too many Democrats, RINOs and here we are.

 

[n9tkf]

If is not CSX to give away to someone else if the agreement was to go back to the adjoining land owner when abandon.

I'd like to see Perdu build a 20 mile long poultry barn on a free ROW right through the middle of Indianapolis.

That was not my point. As long as the rails are not abandoned which they are not at this point but CSX has petitioned to abandon, then they still have the right of way. If they are abandoned then the owners should get the land back according to deeds or titles or easements from back in the 1800s.

CSX is not giving away the ROW but negotiating with the Radius and New Albany to repurpose the ROW to trails under the railbanking rules/laws.

 

[ancjr]

That was not my point. As long as the rails are not abandoned which they are not at this point but CSX has petitioned to abandon, then they still have the right of way. If they are abandoned then the owners should get the land back according to deeds or titles or easements from back in the 1800s.

CSX is not giving away the ROW but negotiating with the Radius and New Albany to repurpose the ROW to trails under the railbanking rules/laws.

The last train went through in 2009, IIRC. There's several layers, one part is that CSX had a requirement to maintain the ROW markings, lights, weed control etc. which was several years ago, saved them a lot of money, and is now a complete mess. The respective municipalities were supposed to assume maintenance of the crossings. Then they later submitted filings for abandonment of the actual rail property itself to the rail bank. It was a monolithic Indiana State chartered ROW.

 

[n9tkf]

It was a monolithic Indiana State chartered ROW.

What is a monolithic Indiana chartered ROW?

Ancjr I take it you have property affected by this?

 

[ancjr]

What is a monolithic Indiana chartered ROW?

Ancjr I take it you have property affected by this?

The State of Indiana chartered the ROW in one fell swoop from New Albany to Bedford. Not bits and pieces. Yes I do.

 

[jamil]

I am sharing what I personally have wittinessed in Indy and from the research that was done by many. I have heard all the gloom and doom from so many over the years but never saw that come to fruition. I get it that if it is a bad area a trail itself does not make its better place overnight, but now that the Monon is over twenty years old we have 20/20 hindsight and it is not what so many feared.

But remember I am a liar, at least that is what I read on INGO…

I don’t think you were lying, personally. I do think that TPTB who push gentrification are liars. They’re quick to tell you how successful it is without showing the dirty little details. It doesn’t reduce **** holes. It doesn’t cause the people who don’t care about their homes care more about their homes. A rising tide lifts all ships they say. As if a rising tide accurately models reality. It doesn’t.

Gentrification prices the neighborhood out of reach for the people who live there. At best, the **** hole moves. At worst, you get tent cities of homeless. But all the politicians who pushed gentrification show you is how expensive the homes have gotten.

The way to reduce **** holes is to police them well, and increase opportunities for the people who want that. Then for everyone else it’s gonna stay a **** hole. Bull-dose the trailer park all you want. It’s just a fact of life.

 

[jamil]

Good job INGO, you finally found a topic where me and Ingomike are on the same side.

Oh. There was never any doubt about that. Probably also like HOA’s.

 

[jamil]

If CSX and the trail operator come to terms then the trail operator would have the rights to the ROW??

No different than another RR taking over operations and securing the ROW from the previous operator. Not sure why they would need Eminent Domain. Since CSX hasn't abandoned it yet, the ROW is still with CSX.

I have no interest in the project but will ride it if it comes to fruition while I am still living. Our county could use some of the $30 million for infrastructure improvement.

If there is no eminent domain issue, then that leaves only using state tax revenues paying for it. If y’all would put your money where your mouth is and donate for the trail, that’d make me happy.

 

[jamil]

I can only speak to what I have seen. Indy obtained the Monon directly from the railroad but before other areas could proceed similarly the landowners filed suits claiming ownership. The cities then used eminent domain to obtain the right of way, put the money in escrow with the courts deciding ROW and proceeded. I believe there were lawsuits in Indy after the fact.

There are several ways the RR got ROW across the state, so there will be no single solution for resolution of who receives the money for that ROW.

Which makes those cities ********ers.

 

[ancjr]

Trails don't cause crime, people do.

 

[Ingomike]

I don’t think you were lying, personally. I do think that TPTB who push gentrification are liars. They’re quick to tell you how successful it is without showing the dirty little details. It doesn’t reduce **** holes. It doesn’t cause the people who don’t care about their homes care more about their homes. A rising tide lifts all ships they say. As if a rising tide accurately models reality. It doesn’t.

Gentrification prices the neighborhood out of reach for the people who live there. At best, the **** hole moves. At worst, you get tent cities of homeless. But all the politicians who pushed gentrification show you is how expensive the homes have gotten.

The way to reduce **** holes is to police them well, and increase opportunities for the people who want that. Then for everyone else it’s gonna stay a **** hole. Bull-dose the trailer park all you want. It’s just a fact of life.

The rising tide does lift ALL ships. Many of the original folks in now gentrified neighborhoods are not ran out, their property value skyrockets and they take the money and run. Those that owned before gentrification make a ton of money…