Direct thread or muzzle device mount? 5.56

[DDadams]

Specifically speaking on 16" barrels

The ARX from Energetic Armament is what I'm waiting on now, not that I'm looking for someone with this can specifically but I'm curious for anyone with experience on 16" barrels with both direct thread vs mounting on a muzzle device.

The guys over at EA suggested I don't cut my barrel and p/w a flash hider but just go direct thread and use their flash hider end cap.

My only concern is flash when going this route - with or without the optional flash cap.

I was going to go with a flash hider muzzle mount to basically ensure I have zero flash when using the can.

But if I just stay with the direct threading will I really have much flash from the unburnt powder in a 16" with a suppressor?

This will be my first suppressor so I've really got very little experience with them firsthand. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Dog1]

I don't know specifically about your setup, but I've never been a huge fan of direct thread on a rifle barrel. They have a tendency to work themselves loose and you have to check them every now and then while shooting to make sure they're not working loose. That is where a welding glove comes into play.

I personally like muzzle devices that have a nice tight lock up anything that has the huge Acme type threads with a ratchet lock or anything that allows the locking of the suppressor on the mount.

Essentially there's two types of mounts- flash hider or muzzle brake. With the muzzle brake you have to time it with shims so you have the brake ports at the proper three and nine o'clock positions. With the flash hiders you generally don't have to time them. Personally I go with the flash hiders on my rifle mounts.

As for the muzzle flash I really haven't paid attention to that. Of course again I don't shoot direct thread so I can't say if there's muzzle flash or not.

 

[sloppyjoe]

The benefits of using a flash hider muzzle device are only important if you are shooting with no silencer attached. With the silencer attached, the mounting method doesnt significantly change the flash signature. The main benefit of QD systems is that you can install and uninstall the silencer by hand. If you go direct thread, you will need to use a wrench to tighten your silencer to the barrel or it will unthread as you shoot. The down side of a QD system is added length and weight. In my opinion, the short and light QD systems are ideal. The three major ones are Griffin Plan A, Q Plan B, and Dead Air Xeno. I use Griffin Plan A on my hosts with EZ brakes.

 

[2tonic]

If you go direct mount its a simple procedure (depending on can shape) to drill and tap a hole through one side of the threaded portion of the can, and dimple the threads on the barrel. Then a grub screw can be used to lock the can in place.
I did this with a Tac-16 can, which has a volute of about 3/4". It's mounted on an 11" SBR, where the handguard almost completely covers the can.
Mounted the can on the barrel, then drilled them simultaneously, to a depth that just dimpled the barrel threads. Unscrewed them, which chased the barrel threading, and tapped the hole in the neck of the can. A Loctited grub screw and it's rock solid.
Again, depends on the shape of the can.

ETA. There is no discernible flash from the can. Flash hiders generally only work in open air, as they enhance combustion by mixing air into the burning gas column.

 

[DDadams]

So muzzle device mounts have no real benefits added to noise nor flash when used as mounts for suppressors?

That seems weird, but I can't argue with it if that's the case. Just another thing I was wrong about when I assumed.

I ordered a Nox anyways.

I figure when the can finally comes I'll try it direct thread for a while and see how I feel about having a 22" barrel.

I just wish SBRs weren't as restricted like suppressors are in regards to leaving the state.

I'll probably end up having my barrel cut and just pin/weld the Nox. Sure does defeat the purpose of going super lightweight.

Just means I need to build an identical lower that I SBR, I guess.

Seems like the only logical solution. If I have one stamp now I might as well get another 10 of them.

 

[Goodcat]

So muzzle device mounts have no real benefits added to noise nor flash when used as mounts for suppressors?

That seems weird, but I can't argue with it if that's the case. Just another thing I was wrong about when I assumed.

I ordered a Nox anyways.

I figure when the can finally comes I'll try it direct thread for a while and see how I feel about having a 22" barrel.

I just wish SBRs weren't as restricted like suppressors are in regards to leaving the state.

I'll probably end up having my barrel cut and just pin/weld the Nox. Sure does defeat the purpose of going super lightweight.

Just means I need to build an identical lower that I SBR, I guess.

Seems like the only logical solution. If I have one stamp now I might as well get another 10 of them.

They kind of act like prebaffles and reduce wear on your baffles, but it just doesn’t matter. Some QD systems throw off barrel harmonics more than others, some release more gas than others. For instance, a Surefire Warcomp QD is garbage compared to a Socom QD for Surefire cans. Direct thread will be immediately more accurate than cheaper QD muzzle device systems, but the same performance as nicer QD systems. If it’s a dedicated suppressed gun, I’d go direct thread and apply just a dab of rock set. Personally, I run Surefire cans on my 5.56 guns and use Socom flash hiders because sometimes I take cans off.

 

[DDadams]

They kind of act like prebaffles and reduce wear on your baffles, but it just doesn’t matter. Some QD systems throw off barrel harmonics more than others, some release more gas than others. For instance, a Surefire Warcomp QD is garbage compared to a Socom QD for Surefire cans. Direct thread will be immediately more accurate than cheaper QD muzzle device systems, but the same performance as nicer QD systems. If it’s a dedicated suppressed gun, I’d go direct thread and apply just a dab of rock set. Personally, I run Surefire cans on my 5.56 guns and use Socom flash hiders because sometimes I take cans off.

Do you have any experience with any of the jmac customs mounts? Or know anyone with them?

That's sure looking like what I should have gone with but I feel hellbent on cutting this barrel down.

 

[Goodcat]

Do you have any experience with any of the jmac customs mounts? Or know anyone with them?

That's sure looking like what I should have gone with but I feel hellbent on cutting this barrel down.

Sorry, I have no experience with those. When discussing the benefits of direct thread over QD on less capable QD as it relates to accuracy, I’m talking 1000 yards+. If it’s a custom rifle company with good feedback, I’d imagine you are good to go either way.

 

[DDadams]

Sorry, I have no experience with those. When discussing the benefits of direct thread over QD on less capable QD as it relates to accuracy, I’m talking 1000 yards+. If it’s a custom rifle company with good feedback, I’d imagine you are good to go either way.

Not trying to read too into this but you've brought up inadequate QD several times.

Is the KeyMo a bad system in your experience? Just wondering if that's what you were trying to tell me without just saying it. I'm not fully invested in this yet, I only bought a solgw nox, didn't even get the actual keymo adapter yet as I was trying to find a sale on one.

 

[Goodcat]

Not trying to read too into this but you've brought up inadequate QD several times.

Is the KeyMo a bad system in your experience? Just wondering if that's what you were trying to tell me without just saying it. I'm not fully invested in this yet, I only bought a solgw nox, didn't even get the actual keymo adapter yet as I was trying to find a sale on one.

Keymo is an absolutely outstanding QD with GREAT track records.

 

[sloppyjoe]

Keymo is an absolutely outstanding QD with GREAT track records.

The downsides to keymo are that it has higher weight and length than more simple taper mounts. If you are trying to keep weight down, Dead Air Xeno and Griffin Plan A are a lot shorter and lighter, but dont have muzzle devices long enough for a pin&weld to reach 16". In my opinion, I would rather have more barrel and less muzzle device since you get higher muzzle velocity.

 

[DDadams]

The downsides to keymo are that it has higher weight and length than more simple taper mounts. If you are trying to keep weight down, Dead Air Xeno and Griffin Plan A are a lot shorter and lighter, but dont have muzzle devices long enough for a pin&weld to reach 16". In my opinion, I would rather have more barrel and less muzzle device since you get higher muzzle velocity.

I noticed this after I bought my solgw nox for this gun.

I haven't had the barrel cut yet and was thinking on going with a jmac customs muzzle brake and keeping it 16" but I think I'm going to go with the keymo anyways for this upper because of how secure the mount seems to be.

I plan on making this rifle a SBR and will transfer the upper to my next build and am going to use the jmac on a shorter, lighter barrel for this when I get the sbr stamp. Use the 16" p/w upper on the new rifle instead.

I agree with having more barrel length but I'd rather not make this particular rifle very end heavy as it's already a bit too forward balanced - going from 16" to 24" seems a worse idea for the balance rather around 20".

The SBR solution seems to be the only logical way out to save weight and length like I want. I just hope the mounting solution works as tight as reviews have stated for the jmac devices.