DeSantis 2024?

[KG1]

I think the timing tends to reveal how serious he took it. Seems to me more like a campaign trail crowd chant that Trump adopted as a campaign slogan. Then it occurred to him that he should probably at least try to make it look like he’s doing something about it in his first term.

See Bug wants Trump to get more credit only for intent. but intent alone isn't gonna matter if it never has a chance to do anything. I truly wish he would've initiated the "Schedule F' EO way before then so maybe it would have done some good and I would've been able to give him more credit.

Was it really a "real ass" attempt as Bug put it? A "real ass" attempt would've been initiated sooner so it could've had the potential to do something.

Just like DeSantis could've in his case with the legislative illegal immigration bill he signed. It did'nt seem to be a top priority otherwise he would've done it sooner like Bug said.

I never gave DeSantis any overdo credit for that or lauded it as some major accomplishment as I'm sure Bug would say that I did. He can go back and check. I don't believe there is any indication of that. I would submit that neither were a major accomplishment.

 

[KLB]

As was, the intent seemed to be to score political points for the election.

 

[KG1]

As was, the intent seemed to be to score political points for the election.

And I imagine Bug would respond to this by saying now do DeSantis (or whatever stupid name he wants to call him) signing that illegal immigration bill shortly before announcing to score some political points.

 

[KG1]

Hey if were giving credit for intent didn't DeSantis and 14 other congressional Republicans co-sponsor a bill in April of 2017 to try and get something funded that would have used the money drug trafficker Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman forfeited for border security measures. cartel money at that which included using funds to build barriers on the southern border. The bill did not go to the floor for a vote but at least they tried.

Here it is.

H.R.2186 - EL CHAPO Act​

H. R. 2186

To reserve any amounts forfeited to the United States Government as a result of the criminal prosecution of Joaquin Archivaldo Guzman Loera (commonly known as “El Chapo”), or of other felony convictions involving the transportation of controlled substances into the United States, for security measures along the Southern border, including the completion of a border wall.

Co-Sponsers.

Cosponsor	Date Cosponsored
Rep. Brady, Kevin [R-TX-8]*	04/27/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Gohmert, Louie [R-TX-1]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Smith, Lamar [R-TX-21]	05/08/2017
Rep. Jones, Walter B., Jr. [R-NC-3]	05/08/2017
Rep. Gosar, Paul A. [R-AZ-4]	05/08/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6]	05/08/2017
Rep. Wilson, Joe [R-SC-2]	05/08/2017
Rep. Palmer, Gary J. [R-AL-6]	05/08/2017
Rep. Cramer, Kevin [R-ND-At Large]	05/08/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]	06/27/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]	09/05/2017
Rep. Perry, Scott [R-PA-4]	11/28/2017

 

[rhamersley]

Hey if were giving credit for intent didn't DeSantis and 14 other congressional Republicans co-sponsor a bill in April of 2017 to try and get something funded that would have used the money drug trafficker Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman forfeited for border security measures. cartel money at that which included using funds to build barriers on the southern border. The bill did not go to the floor for a vote but at least they tried.

Here it is.

H.R.2186 - EL CHAPO Act​

H. R. 2186

To reserve any amounts forfeited to the United States Government as a result of the criminal prosecution of Joaquin Archivaldo Guzman Loera (commonly known as “El Chapo”), or of other felony convictions involving the transportation of controlled substances into the United States, for security measures along the Southern border, including the completion of a border wall.

Co-Sponsers.

Cosponsor	Date Cosponsored
Rep. Brady, Kevin [R-TX-8]*	04/27/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Gohmert, Louie [R-TX-1]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Smith, Lamar [R-TX-21]	05/08/2017
Rep. Jones, Walter B., Jr. [R-NC-3]	05/08/2017
Rep. Gosar, Paul A. [R-AZ-4]	05/08/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6]	05/08/2017
Rep. Wilson, Joe [R-SC-2]	05/08/2017
Rep. Palmer, Gary J. [R-AL-6]	05/08/2017
Rep. Cramer, Kevin [R-ND-At Large]	05/08/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]	06/27/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]	09/05/2017
Rep. Perry, Scott [R-PA-4]	11/28/2017

He wasn't an original co-sponsor, so it don't count... (in 3, 2, 1...)

 

[BugI02]

I wasn't talking about comparing accomplishment.

Convenient. Certainly couldn't have anything to do with DeSantis having so little, yes?

Everything I posted was about demonstrating his constancy on the illegal immigration/ border issue to support my belief that he won't make a policy shift and go soft based on that stable consistancy over many years.

If 'constancy of belief', regardless of actual accomplishment, is your gold standard I would think you would be hoping for Rand Paul to jump in the race. Does not the critique that it is far easier to promise something than to deliver apply to Ron? He has no border with Mexico to control and any direct illegal immigrants to Florida have to come via boat or airplane (including the ones DHS ships him from the real border in Texas). All I've seen is he just transships his illegals on to NYC and takes a public bow. Why doesn't he tell DHS they can't send any more and then take them on in court when the ignore him? Because it will take years to settle the point and he won't be able to look good doing it - and to have state authorities directly interfere with the feds is even more fraught

He's had the same consistancy as Trump has over the same amount of time on this issue and has supported Trump's policy while being one of his more vocal defenders in Congress and even to a certain extent into his Governorship when he's been done wrong That's also consitancy..

That can also be interpreted as clinging to Trump's coattails until he thought he was high enough up the ladder to try to take over the brand. Why settle for the imitation when you could have the original

I haven't really noticed you giving him much credit for supporting Trump and his policies during his unprecedented persecution. Instead, you just follow Trump's immature lead and call him all kinds of stupid names like a junior high schooler.

What has he done for me lately? Perhaps I'm just adopting the standards of the ABTs

The E-verify thing was one part of an illegal immigration legislative package that was passed. Just an example to demonstrate a consistant stance IDK you might have seen me post a couple more examples going back to his stint in Congress.

Sometime in the previous four or five pages, even The Jamil admits that E-verify won't work, but it is the much-hyped centerpiece of that legislation and you resist dealing with the perfectly valid criticism that if it was such a good idea, why did he wait five years into his governorship to implement it - coincidently after he decided to run for president?

You seem to forget the discussion began with you making the unsubstantiated speculative claim that he would go soft on his consistant policy, I've been following that origin all along while you've been trapsing about.

You form your opinion of what you think he will do based on his 'constancy'. I form my opinion of what I think he will do based on who own's him. Too different but valid viewpoints

Now to address this part. This is what the discussion was supposed to be pertaining to.

While I've posted an ample amount of material to support my position on the illegal immigration/border issue all you brought to the discussion was speculation about DeSantis (by speculation I'm referring to what you said about how DeSantis will flip his position on this issue and go soft after being elected just to please his 'money men")

Not how I see it. You want to sell the idea that DeSantis' past performance extrapolates into future behavior but resist allowing the same opinion of Trump, I assume because Trump has much greater actual accomplishments on those issues. If you believe track record as indicator of future behavior, why does that only apply to Ron. Using your methodology, why should I assume he won't fold on staying clear of foreign wars since he has already done so

That is pure speculation. You have no substantive tangible to base that on to show he would. My tangible that leads me to believe he wouldn't is based on his . on the border issue. He's never changed on that. That's real. Not speculation.

Bump the turntable, the tone arm keeps skipping back to the same spot on the record. 'Constancy' can be '... full of sound and fury signifying nothing'

And then you attempt to change the subject about how Trump was so mistreated and never given any substantial credit due him over "Schedule F

You're going to need to accept that with so many people arguing with me simultaneously, it really isn't just about you. Some posts will have to do double and even quadruple duty answering the points raised by others, and while may at the beginning contain a general point derived from an excerpt of a post by you or someone else they are free to diverge from there. Again, not 'all about you'. Something similar has happened to me in disputing a post by Route 45 in another thread. By the time I craft one reply to points raised, two or three other peeps have jumped in and act as if that reply is directed at them simply because it occurs after their posts

It doesn't pertain to me. I wasn't even a party to that discussion at that time nor have I belittled him for anything on that subject.

First correct thing you have said in the last few posts. Pay attention to how many people just in the last few pages want to argue with me that DeSantis isn't a camp chair

When the issue was re-introduced to me that i wasn't aware of and brought to my attention by you during the change of subject mid discussion tactic I gave you the courtesy of doing a little bit of research anyway and subsequently gave Trump some credit for it based on the bit of research that I did.

Easier to do since you are only arguing with one person at a time

So, no you don't get to continue a beef that you had with others and change the discussion to what you want to say at my expense. I wasn't a party to that

"You're not the boss of me"

Go re-hash it with them. See Bug when I have a discussion directly with you about a specific topic, I don't try to make it about me and any other thing I want to talk about in that discussion at your expense like you have done to me.

You fail to discern why you have that luxury and I do not. What you advise would be easier one on one, but until the frenzy to 'prove' me wrong dies down a bit I will take on all comers

That smacks of pomposity on your part..

It's NOT a lie if YOU believe it

 

[BugI02]

Trump signed schedule F in October 2020, just before the election. This is what many incumbent politicians do. They act like they’re working on a campaign promise that had gone unattended otherwise. Alm he did was sign an EO. Could he not have done that his first year?

Nah. Credit is earned. Why should I give credit for draining the swamp when he did nothing to that end until the clock ran out? Maybe credit is automatically earned from people with fierce loyalty, but that’s essentially a handout.

Now do why I should give any credit to DeSantis for signing a bill, whose centerpiece is E-verify which you yourself have admitted likely will not work, when he could have done that his first year as governor rather than just after he decided to run for president

How does that go? 'Why should I give credit for draining the swamp [doing something about illegal immigration] when he did nothing to that end until the clock ran out? Maybe credit is automatically earned from people with fierce loyalty, but that’s essentially a handout.'

Awaiting being further regaled as to how DeSantis will ride into bitterly divided national government and magically get congress to send him bills solving all our problems to sign into law so he won't have to get out his phone and pen

I've seen that show already

 

[BugI02]

See, DeSantis has an unfortunate name. NeverTrumper just rolls off the tongue. Which I think is why Trumpers like saying it. NeverDesantisers just doesn’t work.

He Bug Hater’s Club it is then. The HBHC club it is.

 

[BugI02]

Hey if were giving credit for intent didn't DeSantis and 14 other congressional Republicans co-sponsor a bill in April of 2017 to try and get something funded that would have used the money drug trafficker Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman forfeited for border security measures. cartel money at that which included using funds to build barriers on the southern border. The bill did not go to the floor for a vote but at least they tried.

Here it is.

H.R.2186 - EL CHAPO Act​

H. R. 2186

To reserve any amounts forfeited to the United States Government as a result of the criminal prosecution of Joaquin Archivaldo Guzman Loera (commonly known as “El Chapo”), or of other felony convictions involving the transportation of controlled substances into the United States, for security measures along the Southern border, including the completion of a border wall.

Co-Sponsers.

Cosponsor	Date Cosponsored
Rep. Brady, Kevin [R-TX-8]*	04/27/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Gohmert, Louie [R-TX-1]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5]*	04/27/2017
Rep. Smith, Lamar [R-TX-21]	05/08/2017
Rep. Jones, Walter B., Jr. [R-NC-3]	05/08/2017
Rep. Gosar, Paul A. [R-AZ-4]	05/08/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6]	05/08/2017
Rep. Wilson, Joe [R-SC-2]	05/08/2017
Rep. Palmer, Gary J. [R-AL-6]	05/08/2017
Rep. Cramer, Kevin [R-ND-At Large]	05/08/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]	06/27/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]	09/05/2017
Rep. Perry, Scott [R-PA-4]	11/28/2017

I fail to comprehend how from one face you can criticize Trump (or applaud the criticism by others) for what he tried and failed to do, and then from the other face
hold this up as some form of accomplishment. Did this even make it out of committee?

Introduced by Mo Brooks of Alabams, BTW. Ron didn't climb on the bandwagon until almost two weeks later

So, good intentions count for DeSantis but must be interpreted as negatively as possible for Trump? It doesn't like seem you can perceive cognitive dissonance anymore

 

[BugI02]

See Bug wants Trump to get more credit only for intent. but intent alone isn't gonna matter if it never has a chance to do anything.

Now do the El Chapo act

Double standards are double

 

[BugI02]

And I imagine Bug would respond to this by saying now do DeSantis (or whatever stupid name he wants to call him) signing that illegal immigration bill shortly before announcing to score some political points.

And that would be invalid in exactly what way?

 

[KG1]

I am hereby announcing that I will no longer give credit to DJT.

I haven't really noticed you giving him much credit for supporting Trump and his policies during his unprecedented persecution. Instead, you just follow Trump's immature lead and call him all kinds of stupid names like a junior high schooler.

What has he done for me lately? Perhaps I'm just adopting the standards of the ABTs

 

[KG1]

KG1 said:
See Bug wants Trump to get more credit only for intent. but intent alone isn't gonna matter if it never has a chance to do anything.

Now do the El Chapo act

Double standards are double

Now do this rest of that post that you conveniently left off. Was this evidence of a double standard? You are being deceitful and not operating in good faith Bug.

See Bug wants Trump to get more credit only for intent. but intent alone isn't gonna matter if it never has a chance to do anything. I truly wish he would've initiated the "Schedule F' EO way before then so maybe it would have done some good and I would've been able to give him more credit.

Was it really a "real ass" attempt as Bug put it? A "real ass" attempt would've been initiated sooner so it could've had the potential to do something.

Just like DeSantis could've in his case with the legislative illegal immigration bill he signed. It did'nt seem to be a top priority otherwise he would've done it sooner like Bug said.

I never gave DeSantis any overdo credit for that or lauded it as some major accomplishment as I'm sure Bug would say that I did. He can go back and check. I don't believe there is any indication of that. I would submit that neither were a major accomplishment.

 

[BugI02]

I am hereby announcing that I will no longer give credit to DJT.

He's quite wealthy, I don't believe 'credit' is an existential need for him - provided he has adequately isolated his own money from any problems his corporations might have

 

[KG1]

He's quite wealthy, I don't believe 'credit' is an existential need for him - provided he has adequately isolated his own money from any problems his corporations might have

Meh.. My credit isn't THAT good. Plus, I don't have a CFO to cover my ass.

 

[jamil]

I form my opinion of what I think he will do based on [speculation on] who own's him.

FIFY.

 

[jamil]

Now do why I should give any credit to DeSantis for signing a bill, whose centerpiece is E-verify which you yourself have admitted likely will not work, when he could have done that his first year as governor rather than just after he decided to run for president

I’m not asking you to give credit to DeSantis. I’m challenging your belief that Trump deserves any swamp draining credit.

 

[manifest destiny]

There's not much speculation needed to identify who owns D'tis. He'll govern as he is told to govern. Light years better than anything the D's can produce (RFKjr. not withstanding), certainly. If Trump is the brand name and D'tis is the generic brand, and they cost the same, why buy (vote) the generic brand over a brand name? Unless/until D'tis can remove the neocon stench, compounded by the icky Bush, I'll probably continue to buy the brand name. D'tis isn't a bad person, that I know of; but he's certainly slick to the touch just like his backer$.

 

[BugI02]

FIFY.

Did you just admit that he is indeed owned and you are only disputing who holds the leash?

 

[KG1]

I fail to comprehend how from one face you can criticize Trump (or applaud the criticism by others) for what he tried and failed to do, and then from the other face
hold this up as some form of accomplishment. Did this even make it out of committee?

Introduced by Mo Brooks of Alabams, BTW. Ron didn't climb on the bandwagon until almost two weeks later

So, good intentions count for DeSantis but must be interpreted as negatively as possible for Trump? It doesn't like seem you can perceive cognitive dissonance anymore

I know, I know. You are unable to give him credit because he hasn't done anything for you lately. Screw ABT'ers. Seems to be your stock answer to avoid it.