DeSantis 2024?

[FNparabellum]

Like I've been saying upthread, Trump's bumpstock order isn't exactly evidence of being anti-2A. I think his advisors advised him poorly and he went along with that. I don't think anti-gun is a wart that Trump legitimately has. I wouldn't say he's as pro-gun as many of us are. But I don't have any evidence that anti gun at this point either.

The problem with the bump stock ban is that it is an abuse of his authority. He used power he doesn't have to do it, and it goes unchallenged because the people that should challenge it don't want to lose the potential for that power themselves. That's a wart for sure.

His part in operation warpspeed is also a wart.

As well, him putting the power of the federal government behind lock-downs is a wart.

Arguably not firing Fauci is a wart, but that's a wart most politicians would have too. With the press we have now, that would have been sticky politics to navigate for sure, especially for Trump.

I mostly agree with you. He may not be anti 2a but hes not pro 2A enough for me to get behind. Hes talked about rising the age to buy firearms from 18 to 21. He stoped one thing from Obama from going into effect but didn't come through on his universal ccw or deregulation of suppressors talk. Nor did he roll back any power the ATF has been abusing for years. Hes been wishy-washy on universal background checks and seems to endorse red flag laws. Its alot of little things that bulid up to be showing me hoe 2A friendly he really is.

 

[jamil]

I mostly agree with you. He may not be anti 2a but hes not pro 2A enough for me to get behind. Hes talked about rising the age to buy firearms from 18 to 21. He stoped one thing from Obama from going into effect but didn't come through on his universal ccw or deregulation of suppressors talk. Nor did he roll back any power the ATF has been abusing for years. Hes been wishy-washy on universal background checks and seems to endorse red flag laws. Its alot of little things that bulid up to be showing me hoe 2A friendly he really is.

We're talking about presidents. How many modern presidents have been what you expect Trump to be? But, the point about not rolling back ATF power is pretty big in my book. He actually increased it with the bump stock ban. Also, I forgot about the UBC and red flag laws.

We don't know about DeSantis yet. He did say that constitutional carry is coming to FL.

 

[FNparabellum]

We're talking about presidents. How many modern presidents have been what you expect Trump to be? But, the point about not rolling back ATF power is pretty big in my book. He actually increased it with the bump stock ban. Also, I forgot about the UBC and red flag laws.

We don't know about DeSantis yet. He did say that constitutional carry is coming to FL.

Fl still has red flag laws as well. Im not anti Trump but im not pro eather. Most presidents haven't run on 2A and then went the other way. Desantis isn't perfect and if he fails me as a president Ill say the same about him next go around.

 

[BE Mike]

I guess what I get from what started this thread and how it developed is that the Republican Party needs to decide who is electable in 2024 and who is not. That means that, in a perfect world, which candidate can deliver the most votes from independents and moderate Democrats. The mid-term elections should be sending a big message to those who will listen.

 

[Ingomike]

I mostly agree with you. He may not be anti 2a but hes not pro 2A enough for me to get behind. Hes talked about rising the age to buy firearms from 18 to 21. He stoped one thing from Obama from going into effect but didn't come through on his universal ccw or deregulation of suppressors talk. Nor did he roll back any power the ATF has been abusing for years. Hes been wishy-washy on universal background checks and seems to endorse red flag laws. Its alot of little things that bulid up to be showing me hoe 2A friendly he really is.

Ok a mostly fair assessment. What recent President or primary winner has been better than this? Not what some candidate that can’t get out of the primary says. None I can think of. Here are the options

Carter, Regan, Mondale, Bush I, Dukakis, B Clinton, Dole, Bush II, Gore, Obama, McCain, Romney, HR Clinton, Biden.

So instead of measuring against your purity, let’s measure against reality, who among those that we have an actual choice to vote for is better than Trump?

 

[BugI02]

I guess what I get from what started this thread and how it developed is that the Republican Party needs to decide who is electable in 2024 and who is not. That means that, in a perfect world, which candidate can deliver the most votes from independents and moderate Democrats. The mid-term elections [2024 primaries] should be sending a big message to those who will listen.

Incorrect! The Republican Party decides nothing, the votes of the membership should decide everything

No one, especially not CoCrublicans, should be trying to choose our candidate for us two years in advance. Government, ANY government, should not be picking winners and losers

 

[jamil]

Ok a mostly fair assessment. What recent President or primary winner has been better than this? Not what some candidate that can’t get out of the primary says. None I can think of. Here are the options

Carter, Regan, Mondale, Bush I, Dukakis, B Clinton, Dole, Bush II, Gore, Obama, McCain, Romney, HR Clinton, Biden.

So instead of measuring against your purity principles, let’s measure against reality, who among those that we have an actual choice to vote for is better than Trump?

Why would you use "purity" in that sentence when there is obviously a word that better fits reality? He's talking about his principles. It looks to me like you traded in the obvious for a dirtier word because in conservative circles, living up to your principles is typically viewed as honorable, though in the Trump era, less so.

So let's talk about that last sentence for what it is. Instead of measuring his decisions against his own principles, which you pejoratively label as "purity", which you want him to measure against reality--your reality which you present with all the roses and none of the thorns.

People get to make the decisions their conscience dictates. Should you not live up to your principles? That doesn't mean we make decisions purely on principle. I think that pragmatism tempered by principle is generally a good way to make decisions. So how that would work out for me, pragmatically, I will vote for whoever opposes whichever bat **** crazy democrat TPTB run in the general election. But, I'll temper pragmatism with my principles in a contested primary. I am not voting for Trump in the Primaries. He's done. Let's move on. YMMV

 

[jamil]

Incorrect! The Republican Party decides nothing, the votes of the membership should decide everything

No one, especially not CoCrublicans, should be trying to choose our candidate for us two years in advance. Government, ANY government, should not be picking winners and losers

I guess I agree with the sentiment. But isn't the membership "the party"? I get that it doesn't really work exactly like that way in practice. Party leaders are just as much propagandizing whores as Democrats. The CoC/neocons are a faction in the party's membership. And they're prominent in leadership. But Trump won because of "the party" and not because of the propagandizing whore wing of the party. They have a disproportionate say in the direction of the party than they should have. So I'll grant you that.

 

[HKFaninCarmel]

I don't see a better option with a better record of success than DeSantis. His ability to take on the press and speak to his results is second to none.

 

[Creedmoor]

He's kinda rich. And I heard he ****ed a porn star. Have you ****ed a porn star? I didn't think so.

Does an Only Fans page count as a porn star?

If so im in for a few, but im not a billionaire.

 

[jamil]

Does an Only Fans page count as a porn star?

If so im in for a few, but im not a billionaire.

I mean. Anyone with a browser and internet connection could do that. Clearly not on par with Trump's accomplishments pre-2016.

 

[wingrider1800]

I heard a leftest said to Trump, "How do you sleep at night". Trump replied "naked with a super model"

 

[indyblue]

I like DeSantis... as a Governor.

But he is unproven in national and international matters. Plus his main support has come from Club for Growth, another deep state establishment. I still don't trust him one bit in the national arena and if he does get in he'll likely face the same resistance and malignment from the DEMs as Trump did/does and I'm not sure he'll be able to withstand that as well as Trump.

Trump is definitely a fighter for his beliefs did an amazing job just to get done what he did under those circumstances.

There are many reasons to dislike Trump, but his governance, policies, and outcomes are not any of them.

Someone name me ONE successful world leader/politician that is NOT a narcissistic, self-aggrandizing POS a-hole. Ill wait.
That's what it takes to get to that position.

 

[BugI02]

No, no! If you won't immediately acknowledge every little thing others claim are Trump's flaws then you are binarily idolizing him, or something

 

[foszoe]

Thank goodness both are logged in at the same time, I was sure I had uncovered a shill account!

 

[indyblue]

https://spectator.org/bureaucratization-and-peril-haunt-the-modern-presidency/
A president cannot succeed without personal loyalty to him and his program.

The problem at the White House is that the number of staff has exploded. Early presidents had a few personal assistants and dealt directly with agency heads as their effective staff, often collectively in cabinet meetings. Progressive Teddy Roosevelt, who redesigned a more assertive White House in 1902, only had a personal staff of 30. Even Franklin D. Roosevelt did not move the then-small Budget Office into the West Wing until the end of his second term.

The number of staffers has increased pretty much ever since, and today, under President Joe Biden, there are 15 major presidential bureaucracies within a White House complex comprised of 4,000 or so staffers (and additional interagency assignees), mostly careerists with no loyalty to the president. This is much more staff than any president could possibly deal with directly or, even, indirectly, through reports. And that disconnected bureaucratization has cost presidents dearly.

Donald Trump was plagued with leaks from day one, resulting in impeachments and one term.

a president cannot succeed without personal loyalty to him and his program. He is supposed to be in charge. He, not a White House staff with no personal or serious political links to him, was elected. If the White House is large and has many careerists, this encourages second-guessing and the delay of agency proposals.

who often think they are superior to him intellectually or morally

Reagan knew what he wanted, mostly helped by his agency politicos, and, as a result, is recognized as our most recent successful president.

 

[DolomiteDave]

I like DeSantis... as a Governor.

But he is unproven in national and international matters. Plus his main support has come from Club for Growth, another deep state establishment. I still don't trust him one bit in the national arena and if he does get in he'll likely face the same resistance and malignment from the DEMs as Trump did/does and I'm not sure he'll be able to withstand that as well as Trump.

Trump is definitely a fighter for his beliefs did an amazing job just to get done what he did under those circumstances.

There are many reasons to dislike Trump, but his governance, policies, and outcomes are not any of them.

Someone name me ONE successful world leader/politician that is NOT a narcissistic, self-aggrandizing POS a-hole. Ill wait.
That's what it takes to get to that position.

My opinion is he is far more effective as a governor than he will ever be as president. I also don't think he thinks that. He probably thinks he could get his agenda done where Trump couldn't. He likely thinks he is better than Trump. I think the reality is County and State level politics matter a lot more to our daily lives, and some folks are good where they are. Its like people who get promoted to the point they are bad at their jobs.

 

[BE Mike]

I like DeSantis... as a Governor.

But he is unproven in national and international matters. Plus his main support has come from Club for Growth, another deep state establishment. I still don't trust him one bit in the national arena and if he does get in he'll likely face the same resistance and malignment from the DEMs as Trump did/does and I'm not sure he'll be able to withstand that as well as Trump.

Trump is definitely a fighter for his beliefs did an amazing job just to get done what he did under those circumstances.

There are many reasons to dislike Trump, but his governance, policies, and outcomes are not any of them.

Someone name me ONE successful world leader/politician that is NOT a narcissistic, self-aggrandizing POS a-hole. Ill wait.
That's what it takes to get to that position.

Some of our past best presidents have been former governors. The sad truth is that Trump is unelectable.

 

[oze]

Some of our past best presidents have been former governors. The sad truth is that Trump is unelectable.

Maybe having Executive Office experience, albeit on a smaller scale, helps governors prepare for the big chair. Senators, on the other hand...

 

[KG1]

Maybe having Executive Office experience, albeit on a smaller scale, helps governors prepare for the big chair. Senators, on the other hand...

This is why former Governors are often sought after to run as candidates for POTUS because they have been successful at the State Executive level. Just because they only have State level Executive governmental experience doesn't mean they can't be successful at the national level. It's been proven in the past that they can.