Deputy attempts to justify seizing LTC handguns during traffic stop

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  • Roadie

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    cops routinely ask questions looking for a bigger bust than a traffic citation. "do you have and drugs, can i search your vehicle" etc, are examples of a Terry stop. you are not obligated to allow search of anything, but they're often very persuasive. as i understand, Indiana does not have a requirement to declare. (i think?)

    that all said, i've not ever been stopped whilst carrying. i'd suppose its at least courteous to declare, and that my friends, in reality, gets you farther than your rights. hell, i've declared a pocket knife before.

    Some of us are not willing to give up our Rights so easily, and not in the interest of "Courtesy".. Rights, and Laws, trump Courtesy and Political Correctness, IMHO

    ..and no, declaring does not necessarily "get you farther", and there are many first person stories attesting to this fact, right here on INGO. (and not to mention, right here in THIS thread..)
     

    melensdad

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    The officer writing the original post at that website is from Missouri. He apparently doesn't even know his own state's laws which DO NOT require you to disclose that you have a weapon upon contact with an officer. Further, it does not even require that you disclose if you are asked, but you may be issued a citation if you don't disclose AFTER being asked. Certainly there is no requirement to proactively inform.

    Missouri Code 571.121 said:
    1. Any person issued a concealed carry endorsement pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall carry the concealed carry endorsement at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm and shall display the concealed carry endorsement upon the request of any peace officer. Failure to comply with this subsection shall not be a criminal offense but the concealed carry endorsement holder may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed thirty-five dollars.
     

    foszoe

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    That's my every day carry list for vehicular travel

    Other than the missing apostrophe in the title and misspelling "perspective," it was a revealing article. :rolleyes:

    I applaud all LEOs and their efforts to keep us safe. I've ridden with local cops several times and am truly amazed whenever the seedy underbelly of our community is revealed. I would NOT want their jobs, and completely understand this officer's desire for self-preservation.

    However, I'm sure a good lawyer could challenge the seizure of lawfully held weapons in a routine traffic stop on 4th Amendment grounds. And, if I am wrong about that, I still have no interest in seeing some stranger -- LEO or not -- walk away with MY handguns lawfully in my possession. I've met far too many LEOs who really don't know that much about guns and have no real interest in them.

    This article sure makes me rethink the wisdom of volunteering the information that I have firearms in my vehicle. Just imagine the time it would take for a cop to ensure his personal safety from me if I were pulled over on my way to the range ...

    "Officer, I have a license to carry and I DO have firearms on my person and in the vehicle."

    "What firearms do you have and where are they?"

    "Let's see ... there's a 9mm in the glove box in front of the steering wheel, a .45 on my hip at 4:00 ... two M-4s in the back, along with another couple of 9mms, a .357 and a .40."

    What could have been a simple license check and warning to slow down a bit could easily turn into a half-hour circus of unloading, securing and transferring firearms and most likely involve another cruiser or two, just in case.

    No thanks. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut unless I am asked.
     

    karatejoe

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    Having been an IPD officer for 10 years ( im not anymore ) you are best to inform them you have a gun and a gun permit. Most likely they will ask for your gun and return it moments later with the mag unloaded and tell you to load when they are gone.
    Do you really want to keep your mouth shut and some how surprise the officer by him seeing your concealed weapon? do you enjoy staring down the barrell of a loaded gun? What if the officers training failed and he accidently fired a round in the moment?
    yea go ahead and excersize your rights to carry a gun and keep it a secret during a routine traffic stop. See how long it stays routine.
    Some people amaze me with stupidity.
     

    HavokCycle

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    Some of us are not willing to give up our Rights so easily, and not in the interest of "Courtesy".. Rights, and Laws, trump Courtesy and Political Correctness, IMHO

    ..and no, declaring does not necessarily "get you farther", and there are many first person stories attesting to this fact, right here on INGO. (and not to mention, right here in THIS thread..)

    id rather lose a gun from a whackadoodle cop that i can get back after 2 months of dealing with bureaucratic red tape than be shot in the face by a roid-raging LEO on a power trip. i have more guns to carry. im out of 1ups.
     

    Roadie

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    Having been an IPD officer for 10 years ( im not anymore ) you are best to inform them you have a gun and a gun permit. Most likely they will ask for your gun and return it moments later with the mag unloaded and tell you to load when they are gone.
    Do you really want to keep your mouth shut and some how surprise the officer by him seeing your concealed weapon? do you enjoy staring down the barrell of a loaded gun? What if the officers training failed and he accidently fired a round in the moment?
    yea go ahead and excersize your rights to carry a gun and keep it a secret during a routine traffic stop. See how long it stays routine.
    Some people amaze me with stupidity.

    :n00b:

    I agree with the bolded part..

    Yeah, laws and Rights be damned. Statistics showing Licensed Gun Owners as being overwhelmingly law abiding be damned. No, instead, let's all just bow down to a LEOs irrational fear and/or ignorance of the law, let alone a complete absence of any sense of safety.. and HANDLE A LOADED WEAPON INSTEAD OF LEAVING IT SECURE IN A HOLSTER!

    :facepalm:

    Do they not teach Police Officers that the safest gun is the one NOT BEING TOUCHED??

    EDIT: By the way, there have been several Officers that post here on INGO, that once made aware of the facts regarding gun owner's Rights, have changed their position on illegal confiscation of handguns from an LTCH. Just sayin..
     
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    T-DOGG

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    Having been an IPD officer for 10 years ( im not anymore ) you are best to inform them you have a gun and a gun permit. Most likely they will ask for your gun and return it moments later with the mag unloaded and tell you to load when they are gone.
    Do you really want to keep your mouth shut and some how surprise the officer by him seeing your concealed weapon? do you enjoy staring down the barrell of a loaded gun? What if the officers training failed and he accidently fired a round in the moment?
    yea go ahead and excersize your rights to carry a gun and keep it a secret during a routine traffic stop. See how long it stays routine.
    Some people amaze me with stupidity.

    Any chance you care to share with us why you are no longer an officer? Did your training fail? Do tell. No worries, we'll keep it secret, while we are exercising our rights. :welcome: to :ingo: by the way.
     

    foszoe

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    Having been an IPD officer for 10 years ( im not anymore ) you are best to inform them you have a gun and a gun permit. Most likely they will ask for your gun and return it moments later with the mag unloaded and tell you to load when they are gone.
    Do you really want to keep your mouth shut and some how surprise the officer by him seeing your concealed weapon? do you enjoy staring down the barrell of a loaded gun? What if the officers training failed and he accidently fired a round in the moment?
    yea go ahead and excersize your rights to carry a gun and keep it a secret during a routine traffic stop. See how long it stays routine.
    Some people amaze me with stupidity.

    I would hoped i lived through it so I would not have to work another day
     

    Bunnykid68

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    Having been an IPD officer for 10 years ( im not anymore ) you are best to inform them you have a gun and a gun permit. Most likely they will ask for your gun and return it moments later with the mag unloaded and tell you to load when they are gone.
    Do you really want to keep your mouth shut and some how surprise the officer by him seeing your concealed weapon? do you enjoy staring down the barrell of a loaded gun? What if the officers training failed and he accidently fired a round in the moment?
    yea go ahead and excersize your rights to carry a gun and keep it a secret during a routine traffic stop. See how long it stays routine.
    Some people amaze me with stupidity.

    If you are amazed you should just read everything you wrote. So, because one is not breaking any laws they may have a gun pointed at them? Glad you are not an officer anymore because it is none of your business if I have a gun on me.
     

    Jack Burton

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    The officer writing the original post at that website is from Missouri. He apparently doesn't even know his own state's laws which DO NOT require you to disclose that you have a weapon upon contact with an officer. Further, it does not even require that you disclose if you are asked, but you may be issued a citation if you don't disclose AFTER being asked. Certainly there is no requirement to proactively inform.


    Note the wording on the law carefully. It says the endorsement must be shown to the officer if the officer asks about it. It says nothing about telling the officer that you have a gun with you. If the officer specifically says, do you have a gun (firearm) then it appears that you don't have to say a word or show anything.
     

    Roadie

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    Hey, I have an idea. How about if PDs stop hiring roid-raged LEOs on power trips?

    Just a thought.

    DING DING DING we have a winner!

    If you are amazed you should just read everything you wrote. So, because one is not breaking any laws they may have a gun pointed at them? Glad you are not an officer anymore because it is none of your business if I have a gun on me.

    judge-dredd-320x240.jpg
     

    HavokCycle

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    If you are amazed you should just read everything you wrote. So, because one is not breaking any laws they may have a gun pointed at them? Glad you are not an officer anymore because it is none of your business if I have a gun on me.

    we've all seen the ohio cruiser vid.
    what we're basically discussing here, is an armed person vs an armed person. each knows they are armed. the CCW knows the LEO is armed, the LEO doesn't know the CCW is.
    now, legal rights not withstanding, whats likely to happen? whats the worst that can occur from have your weapon taken away. i go home and get another, and spend months getting the first one back. the situation brewing is basically a mexican stand off. if you pull your legally owned CCW on a cop, and you're shot, he's right. if you get off the first round, and he goes down, he's right. our rights be damned, if some **** goes down during a confrontation like the ohio vid, two things would have happened.
    A - the CCW got the needle as a cop killer
    B - the cop got fired for a bad shoot, and you're still dead.

    i gotta tell ya guys, i'll be the first to defend myself when the UN marches down my door, but in a F2F confrontation versus one guy that has legal authority, i'm gonna play nice. i'm willing to give my life against a horde of Gestapo. against a single dickweed with a badge, not so much.
     
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    Kirk Freeman

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    Do you really want to keep your mouth shut and some how surprise the officer by him seeing your concealed weapon?

    Yes, really, I do.

    I've had IMPD take one of my pistols off me and look at it like an ape from 2001 as he flagged soccer moms and Broad Ripple bikers.

    What if the officers training failed and he accidently fired a round in the moment?

    I respect your honesty in admitting that this happens, too frequently and we talk about it here.

    1. I would hope the officer would not point the gun at me, but that happened too as he looked at it like a thigh bone.

    2. How about we train the officers not to do that stupid crap like coonfingering guns on the roadside or in Broad Ripple like some low gun skill pudknocker?

    yea go ahead and excersize your rights to carry a gun and keep it a secret during a routine traffic stop. See how long it stays routine.
    Some people amaze me with stupidity.

    Don't ask, don't tell, don't get your own gun pointed at you.
     

    Bunnykid68

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    we've all seen the ohio cruiser vid.
    what we're basically discussing here, is an armed person vs an armed person. each knows they are armed. the CCW knows the LEO is armed, the LEO doesn't know the CCW is.
    now, legal rights not withstanding, whats likely to happen? whats the worst that can occur from have your weapon taken away. i go home and get another, and spend months getting the first one back. the situation brewing is basically a mexican stand off. if you pull your legally owned CCW on a cop, and you're shot, he's right. if you get off the first round, and he goes down, he's right. our rights be damned, if some **** goes down during a confrontation like the ohio vid, two things would have happened.
    A - the CCW got the needle as a cop killer
    B - the cop got fired for a bad shoot, and you're still dead.

    i gotta tell ya guys, i'll be the first to defend myself when the UN marches down my door, but in a F2F confrontation versus a guy that has legal authority, i'm gonna play nice.

    You are missing the most important point, they have no legal right to be confiscating your weapon to begin with.
     
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