Democrats want to Legalize Marijuana

[JeepHammer]

Indiana Democrats want to legalize medical and recreational marijuana. They say it will generate a lot of tax revenue.
Obviously, the next step is to legalize prostitution. It will also generate tax revenue and attract conventions (except the FFA) to the state. Additionally, it will provide employment for unskilled young people who don't want to bother with schooling.


Add purple if you think necessary.

I'm all for LEGITIMATE MEDICAL use laws.

I've seen the reports from the VA where hard narcotics were dropped by vets with serious injuries/chronic pain when they switched to pot/THC.

Back/Neck/Joint injuries alone would be worth the relief...
And there wouldn't be the continuing increased cost of treatment for the conditions hard drugs cause, liver, kidney, heart & lung damage.
Long term hard drug use causes a crap load of issues, none of these with pot/THC.

Controlled costs...
If the VA needs more, just grow more and some farmer gets to keep his farm,
Plus the patient doesn't loose kidneys, liver, etc increasing cost of treatments.

I've seen the reports where PTSD patients could drop the hard drugs and get along with pot/THC,
Particularly ON DEMAND when they are having a PTS event,
Instead of trying to keep hard drug blood levels up ALL THE TIME.

Let's not forget the nursing home studies where hard drugs were reduced 90% with pot/THC edibles (in VERY small, controlled doses).

.......

What I'm NOT up for is 'Recrational' use until someone comes up with a hard science sobriety test for THC,
Like a breathalyzer is for alcohol.

This is a powerful drug no matter what common belief is,
It alters perception of reality,
And I don't want a 'Recrational' user operating a car, big truck, heavy equipment, etc.

Enough stoned, crazy & people doing stupid things now,
See any idiot on a mobile device walking out in traffic or driving a car...

Add 'Recrational' mild altering substance to that mix and things go horribly wrong real fast!

......

Political side of things...
I'm pretty sure Indiana will do some kind of recreational or idiotic 'Medical' passage simply because of the MONEY.

Damn public safety, damn easy access to kids, it will pass because of money alone.
Colorado's $3 Billion revenue surplus in 2 years got every state legislature attention, and Indiana is no exception...

I'm also equally sure in Indiana it will be 'Pay To Play' production licence...
You know, like about all state government contracts are in Indiana, from road construction to school lunches.

 

[jamil]

Poppies are a plant, coca is a plant, belladonna is a plant, hemlock is a plant. The whole idea that because something occurs in nature it is automatically harmless and wonderful is magical thinking. Gaia is just another name for the lady who is "... red in tooth and claw" and she would kill you without a second thought

I’ll agree with you here. The “just a plant” argument is obviously facile. It’s more complicated than that and such arguments that fail to recognize the things that are true won’t be taken seriously by opponents.

It’s obviously not just any old plant. If it were, there’d be no need to fight over whether or not it should be legal.

 

[Biggredchev]

Cocaine is a plant in the way alcohol is a plant. And heroin, for that matter.

Exactly. Kinda. Lol

 

[Twangbanger]

With all the attention to The Kenosha Kid, the below story could have been a thread in itself, since it deals with a black man being acquitted on a self-defense case. But here's an example which I think points up the silliness of the out-of-control drug war:

https://www.citizensjournal.us/medi...g-in-self-defense-on-same-day-as-rittenhouse/

The cops lit up a house, shot a 21 y/o girl 10 times, then charged the _homeowner_ (who was acquitted) with _her_ murder.

I would love to know the percentage of cops who are thrilled to do drug enforcement. I have no idea. But it drives no-end of interactions with black males in this country.

We've lost. I've changed my mind on this. The prudes need to understand that the welfare state is going to exist, whether drugs are legal or not. Yes, more people will do it. Yes, it will degrade the collective ambition to some extent. Yes, you're going to end up paying for it as a social program.

But that ship already sailed, when Conservatism, Inc. failed to make any principled, effective rebuttal of the Lyndon Johnson War on Poverty. It's here to stay.

The real question is, are we going to continue to involve our police in cluster-f*cks like the one linked above. I personally would rather have them do something else.

 

[jamil]

And? All of them should be completely absent from the law. I can't figure out if it's the complete failure of the attempts to prohibit people from taking part of these substances or the illogical desire to control what other people do that keeps this issue alive.

Right now, at this very moment, I have neighbors who are doing God knows what within their homes. It isn't hurting me in any way, shape or form so why should I care? What right do I have to tell them what they can or cannot do with their own body on their own property?

I'm not claiming cannabis is the end all, be all cure for what ails humanity and that it should be encouraged at every turn. It is a plant. Not man made like alcohol or cocaine, meth, heroin, etc. Its benefits are well documented. Can it cause harm? Sure, but what right do I have to interfere with someone else doing what they want?

The end (a costly and ineffective attempt at prohibition) does not justify the means (interfering with a person's right to utilize a plant) in this instance. We've got lots of other ****ed up laws which should be the focus of legitimate attention from people. If someone can get themselves to think outside of their training on the issue it becomes very simple.

It doesn’t really matter if it’s natural or synthetic. Neither attribute makes something suitable or unsuitable to be banned. Harm or no harm. That’s what the moral argument is for both sides.

It’s just not a good argument to downplay the reason why it’s popular. It’s more than just a plant. People like to smoke it because they like to get high. Even the medicinal uses are secondary to that primary feature of this plant.

So fine. It gives pleasure. Can it be harmful? Yes. To users or even innocent people. Just like alcohol can. But. Is it a majority? No. Can banning it cause as much societal harm as use? Obviously. This is why I support legalizing it.

 

[BugI02]

Cocaine is a plant in the way alcohol is a plant. And heroin, for that matter.

You can chew the leaves, and many indigenous people do

You can make cuts in the seed pod of the poppy, scape the sap and smoke that or eat it

You can make an infusion of willow bark instead of taking an aspirin. Men purified and stabilized the active ingredients because they wanted them available anytime with greater efficacy. But the 'natural' version isn't magically better for you, and you can get just as junked out on opium as you can any of its derivatives

 

[Route 45]

You can chew the leaves, and many indigenous people do

Have you reported them yet?

 

[BugI02]

Awwww. You mad, Lebowski?

 

[Ingomike]

Heck, if I want decongestants that actually work (pseudoephedrine) I have to show DL and sign, so I think they're also 'discouraging' trying to buy too many of those so you can't home-brew meth

Yep! Just another restriction in the law abiding to stop the addicted…

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The discussion over pot legalization is quite the emotional issue, eh? Brings out the worst in some, huh?

My argument is not really over legalization. Legalization is a messy at best, but so is a lot of other legislation that we have control of and not. FYI though, arguments that attempt to use shame or rudeness in some fashion won't be winning a lot of folks over to the legalization side.

My point is more over the need to educate folks that they don't need the recreational buzz to have a good life. Intoxication is not really that cool as society and media has always raised us to believe. Changing mental status with chemicals recreationally on occasion is fine, but regular use is not productive for the user or others associated.

Chasing euphoria on a regular basis certainly has been the downfall of a lot of folks. Changing laws won't effect that one way or the other. Changing attitudes about the need for euphoria in daily life is the better argument.

I think this was what I was driving at: If our society is going to survive, we need to change attitudes about a fair number of what are turning out to be unproductive or destructive behaviors that are considered "normal" today. Perhaps if we legalized pot we could simultaneously begin the same sort of campaign that's made cigarettes less "cool" and save some lives that way. If we want to "decriminalize" prostitution, perhaps we can begin an ad campaign about the lives that sex workers live and the dangers of STDs, and how two-parent households give their children a step up in life over kids from broken homes. Then maybe we could start an add campaign to point out that intolerance over words, pronouns, gender identity, and cancel culture is destructive to society as a whole and try to get people to knock that off.

If we can get a major portion of our society to agree that individual liberty doesn't mean license to do what one damned well pleases, regardless of how much it harms others and to recognize that not everyone has the same set of beliefs but that there are central beliefs that we, as a society, should uphold, perhaps things like encouraging drug use by legalizing it, or making prostitution an acceptable substitute for marital relations wouldn't become a stepping stone to even more destructive behaviors being condoned by society.

 

[BugI02]

I think this was what I was driving at: If our society is going to survive, we need to change attitudes about a fair number of what are turning out to be unproductive or destructive behaviors that are considered "normal" today. Perhaps if we legalized pot we could simultaneously begin the same sort of campaign that's made cigarettes less "cool" and save some lives that way. If we want to "decriminalize" prostitution, perhaps we can begin an ad campaign about the lives that sex workers live and the dangers of STDs, and how two-parent households give their children a step up in life over kids from broken homes. Then maybe we could start an add campaign to point out that intolerance over words, pronouns, gender identity, and cancel culture is destructive to society as a whole and try to get people to knock that off.

If we can get a major portion of our society to agree that individual liberty doesn't mean license to do what one damned well pleases, regardless of how much it harms others and to recognize that not everyone has the same set of beliefs but that there are central beliefs that we, as a society, should uphold, perhaps things like encouraging drug use by legalizing it, or making prostitution an acceptable substitute for marital relations wouldn't become a stepping stone to even more destructive behaviors being condoned by society.

Or we could just cull the herd

 

[Ingomike]

Or we could just cull the herd

Are humans stronger or weaker physically as a species?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Are humans stronger or weaker physically as a species?

In the first place, if the "herd" is going to be culled, it would have to be a major die-off. But we're not talking about the health of the human species here - or at least I'm not talking about that. What we ARE talking about is the health of our society. Most of what we call First World nations are experiencing declining birth rates, and not all of it is due to the evils of abortion.

 

[Ingomike]

In the first place, if the "herd" is going to be culled, it would have to be a major die-off. But we're not talking about the health of the human species here - or at least I'm not talking about that. What we ARE talking about is the health of our society. Most of what we call First World nations are experiencing declining birth rates, and not all of it is due to the evils of abortion.

You don’t think wuwho flu has acted a a culling agent? Culling the most vulnerable amongst us?

 

[jamil]

Or we could just cull the herd

Wait. I thought that’s what the covid is?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You don’t think wuwho flu has acted a a culling agent? Culling the most vulnerable amongst us?

Actually, I don't think it acted as any more of a culling agent than the normal annual influenza outbreak did. I watched a video in September of 2020 by a guy who, using the governmental numbers put out by various European governments and the US, compared the death rates of all "natural causes" to previous years prior to the current "Dempanic." In years where influenza and other such diseases don't kill off as many of the weak young and elderly, there generally follows a year where the weak and elderly who survived the mild flu is killed off by a more virulent flu and the numbers of "natural causes" deaths increases. The wuflu appears to have followed that pattern: e.g. it was killing the weak and vulnerable in about the same numbers as a "bad" flu year.

Now, with the advent of all the bad reactions to the various "vaccines" and drug treatments that are "approved" I'd say the "Dempanic" has become much more deadly, but not because of the virus.

 

[phylodog]

Now, with the advent of all the bad reactions to the various "vaccines" and drug treatments that are "approved" I'd say the "Dempanic" has become much more deadly, but not because of the virus.

The icing on the cake is that they've found a way to blame us for it which is apparently very convincing for those who choose not to think rationally.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Aside from my wife & I having slight fevers in the fall of 2019, apparently neither one of us has gotten the bug. I say "apparently" because she's been mostly bed-bound for a couple years and we're currently living and sleeping primarily in our living room so I can take care of her. She had a couple eye surgeries in 2020 and had to have COVID tests before the last two - and tested negative. As for me, I do all the shopping and most everything outside the house; haven't taken any special precautions other than wearing the stupid masks whenever circumstances required; and I go everywhere unmasked and pretty much unafraid of this thing. It's kind of hard for me to understand why people are letting themselves be panicked over a virus that has a 99% survival rate for the majority of the population. If people were dying in the streets, I could understand quarantines and other restrictions, but the death numbers never came close to the "sky-is-falling" numbers initially predicted and it seems to me that many of the folks dying in hospitals and nursing homes may have been dying from malpractice - government malpractice - as much as the "deadliness" of this virus.

 

[phylodog]

Aside from my wife & I having slight fevers in the fall of 2019, apparently neither one of us has gotten the bug. I say "apparently" because she's been mostly bed-bound for a couple years and we're currently living and sleeping primarily in our living room so I can take care of her. She had a couple eye surgeries in 2020 and had to have COVID tests before the last two - and tested negative. As for me, I do all the shopping and most everything outside the house; haven't taken any special precautions other than wearing the stupid masks whenever circumstances required; and I go everywhere unmasked and pretty much unafraid of this thing. It's kind of hard for me to understand why people are letting themselves be panicked over a virus that has a 99% survival rate for the majority of the population. If people were dying in the streets, I could understand quarantines and other restrictions, but the death numbers never came close to the "sky-is-falling" numbers initially predicted and it seems to me that many of the folks dying in hospitals and nursing homes may have been dying from malpractice - government malpractice - as much as the "deadliness" of this virus.

Don't discount the possibility that you've had the virus and remained asymptomatic. My wife, daughter and son have had it the worst it got was a headache and runny nose. I hav no confirmation that I've had it but I'd bet with confidence that I have and simply didn't have symptoms having spent hours sitting next to someone who became ill and tested positive hours later.

 

[phylodog]

Wait..... I try not to derail threads and I'm talking about Covid in a cannabis thread.

Alright, starting over......

Uhh, if you think you have Covid, drive to IL or MI and get some edibles. They'll make you feel better