Democrats want to Legalize Marijuana

[wagyu52]

There’s a dispensary less 1/4 mile from Indiana as the crow flies, at the first interchange on I 74 in Illinois. Coincident? I think not.
My wife works in that wonderful state and it has been a nightmare coupled with covid, you think it’s hard to get people to work now, just legalize pot

 

[fullmetaljesus]

My older brother left as a spark chaser on B52s and came home a pot smoking alcoholic and it took him more than 40 years to hit bottom, and by then his body was shot. He currently has about 1/3 of his bladder left after cancer, is catheterized all the time and is going blind from glaucoma, has COPD and his liver is barely hanging on

Can't say how much or how little to credit to the weed, but that life was often what seemed to drag him back under when he seemed to be making progress. I find the stuff and those who peddle it detestable, feeding off the misery of others just like any other drug dealer

I don't smoke, I don't drink to excess but I do drink a little scotch now and then or wine with dinner. I have no use for other drugs

Someone said alcohol isn't safe so you may want to stop poisoning yourself.

 

[kawtech87]

Someone said alcohol isn't safe so you may want to stop poisoning yourself.

Moderation and self control. I see nothing wrong with this:

I don't smoke, I don't drink to excess but I do drink a little scotch now and then or wine with dinner. I have no use for other drugs

 

[BehindBlueI's]

My older brother left as a spark chaser on B52s and came home a pot smoking alcoholic and it took him more than 40 years to hit bottom, and by then his body was shot. He currently has about 1/3 of his bladder left after cancer, is catheterized all the time and is going blind from glaucoma, has COPD and his liver is barely hanging on

Can't say how much or how little to credit to the weed, but that life was often what seemed to drag him back under when he seemed to be making progress. I find the stuff and those who peddle it detestable, feeding off the misery of others just like any other drug dealer

I don't smoke, I don't drink to excess but I do drink a little scotch now and then or wine with dinner. I have no use for other drugs

I'm legitimately sorry for your brother's condition and can very much empathize with having a poor decision making family member using drugs while declining into a lousy standard of living followed by death. I can pretty much guarantee you wanted to help him, and I can equally guarantee that you never turned him in to the police to be arrested thinking that would be a good way to do it. People try to get their loved ones into rehab, but not into jail. That's probably another clue that deep down everyone recognizes we can't arrest our way into breaking addictions.

You can't arrest your way out of the drug crisis any more than you can arrest your way out of the mental health crisis. Can you honestly say that treating it like a crime has made our culture better since Nancy Reagan told us all to just say no? If yes, then great, the war on drugs has been a stunning success and let's keep the status quo. If not, maybe it's time to try something else.

 

[KLB]

You can't arrest your way out of the drug crisis any more than you can arrest your way out of the mental health crisis.

And they are very much related.

 

[Ingomike]

My older brother left as a spark chaser on B52s and came home a pot smoking alcoholic and it took him more than 40 years to hit bottom, and by then his body was shot. He currently has about 1/3 of his bladder left after cancer, is catheterized all the time and is going blind from glaucoma, has COPD and his liver is barely hanging on

Can't say how much or how little to credit to the weed, but that life was often what seemed to drag him back under when he seemed to be making progress. I find the stuff and those who peddle it detestable, feeding off the misery of others just like any other drug dealer

I don't smoke, I don't drink to excess but I do drink a little scotch now and then or wine with dinner. I have no use for other drugs

Sorry to hear your brothers story. We know that around 10% of humans have addiction issues no matter what everyone else does. It is not practical to criminalize the other 90% because 10% have the issues.

 

[Lex Concord]

This is not new. It's not just Democrats or Libertarians (or libertarians ) who want to see this happen. This includes INGO 2A hero Jim Lucas.

Every marijuana reform bill in Indiana died this year except for one. Here's what it says.

Note the letters next to the names of those who introduced related bills last session.

I wouldn't vote for a Democrat, but I would call my reps and strongly encourage them to vote with Democrats on any bill that would move toward legalization.

Drugs ruin lives. Alcohol, tobacco, opiates, etc. — all legal across the country within various restrictions and oversight — ruin lives every single day.

Prohibition helps no one but the rent seekers (e.g. Lilly); it's very hard to compete with a remedy that one can grow in a ditch or a backyard or a basement that can't be patented. All of the people you have known and loved who have suffered from their use or misuse of marijuana in spite of a decades long war on drugs.

Imagine if we were able to use half the existing enforcement budget to send the same folks currently being sent to jail or prison — where they learn to do real drugs, and real crime — and instead sent them to rehab or other treatment programs to actually try to help them turn it around.

Prohibition hurts plenty of people who have harmed no one but themselves. It does catch and punish some who do harm others in operation of their black market operations or pursuit of drugs.

Prohibition of marijuana specifically hurts a lot of people who don't break the law. Who won't break the law. Who can't get the simple and relatively inexpensive relief that marijuana offers for numerous conditions.

The participation in such black markets isn't, in most cases, due to an innate desire to be criminal; it is a function of economics, another name for the human constant of risk-reward assessment that drives all of our actions. The higher the risk, the higher the economic reward, and the higher the likelihood some will be willing to take the risk of running afoul of the law.

I have no illusion that these black markets would completely dry up in the face of legalization, as there will certainly be taxes or other regulation folks will want to skirt, and many of those already used to the cash flow will likely pivot to those substances still highly restricted. Even so, that is no excuse to continue to prohibit this relatively harmless substance to the detriment of society.

We are not children. The government is not our daddy, our mommy, or our nanny, or our master.

I'm always amazed at how many people around here seem to understand that when it comes to guns, but can't seem to complete the analogy on certain other topics.

I get that emotion often undermines logic and sometimes conviction; the arguments I've seen against legalization seem to suffer from this fate. Many of them are based on the premise that bad things have happened, and bad things might happen again.

Lest you forget, the possibility of bad outcomes is one of the cornerstones of most anti-gun arguments.

"But people sometimes use guns to murder people" - murder is already illegal; many people use guns to protect themselves.

"But people steal to feed their drug habits" - stealing is already illegal; many people use cannabis products to improve their quality of life.

If one doesn't see the similarities, he is blinded by something.

Life is full of risk. There are plenty of legal ways one may choose to ruin his life. There are plenty of ways some might harm others.

I believe crimes should require harm of some kind against another person or their property.

Possessing or using cannabis alone doesn't meet that bar.

In short, I prefer "the tempestuous sea of liberty".

 

[bwframe]

...maybe it's time to try something else.

We should start and promote making all mind altering intoxication not cool.

The anti-smoking campaigns have worked pretty well to make smoking no longer cool. Something along that line would do well to promote not altering people's mental status with any chemical.

Bottom line, we shouldn't change any laws. Just change attitudes about how to live life.

 

[Lex Concord]

Sorry to hear your brothers story. We know that around 10% of humans have addiction issues no matter what everyone else does. It is not practical to criminalize the other 90% because 10% have the issues.

Nor is it moral to do so.

 

[Ingomike]

This is not new. It's not just Democrats or Libertarians (or libertarians ) who want to see this happen. This includes INGO 2A hero Jim Lucas.

Every marijuana reform bill in Indiana died this year except for one. Here's what it says.

Note the letters next to the names of those who introduced related bills last session.

I wouldn't vote for a Democrat, but I would call my reps and strongly encourage them to vote with Democrats on any bill that would move toward legalization.

Drugs ruin lives. Alcohol, tobacco, opiates, etc. — all legal across the country within various restrictions and oversight — ruin lives every single day.

Prohibition helps no one but the rent seekers (e.g. Lilly); it's very hard to compete with a remedy that one can grow in a ditch or a backyard or a basement that can't be patented. All of the people you have known and loved who have suffered from their use or misuse of marijuana in spite of a decades long war on drugs.

Imagine if we were able to use half the existing enforcement budget to send the same folks currently being sent to jail or prison — where they learn to do real drugs, and real crime — and instead sent them to rehab or other treatment programs to actually try to help them turn it around.

Prohibition hurts plenty of people who have harmed no one but themselves. It does catch and punish some who do harm others in operation of their black market operations or pursuit of drugs.

Prohibition of marijuana specifically hurts a lot of people who don't break the law. Who won't break the law. Who can't get the simple and relatively inexpensive relief that marijuana offers for numerous conditions.

The participation in such black markets isn't, in most cases, due to an innate desire to be criminal; it is a function of economics, another name for the human constant of risk-reward assessment that drives all of our actions. The higher the risk, the higher the economic reward, and the higher the likelihood some will be willing to take the risk of running afoul of the law.

I have no illusion that these black markets would completely dry up in the face of legalization, as there will certainly be taxes or other regulation folks will want to skirt, and many of those already used to the cash flow will likely pivot to those substances still highly restricted. Even so, that is no excuse to continue to prohibit this relatively harmless substance to the detriment of society.

We are not children. The government is not our daddy, our mommy, or our nanny, or our master.

I'm always amazed at how many people around here seem to understand that when it comes to guns, but can't seem to complete the analogy on certain other topics.

I get that emotion often undermines logic and sometimes conviction; the arguments I've seen against legalization seem to suffer from this fate. Many of them are based on the premise that bad things have happened, and bad things might happen again.

Lest you forget, the possibility of bad outcomes is one of the cornerstones of most anti-gun arguments.

"But people sometimes use guns to murder people" - murder is already illegal; many people use guns to protect themselves.

"But people steal to feed their drug habits" - stealing is already illegal; many people use cannabis products to improve their quality of life.

If one doesn't see the similarities, he is blinded by something.

Life is full of risk. There are plenty of legal ways one may choose to ruin his life. There are plenty of ways some might harm others.

I believe crimes should require harm of some kind against another person or their property.

Possessing or using cannabis alone doesn't meet that bar.

In short, I prefer "the tempestuous sea of liberty".

Well articulated…

 

[Brad69]

So are Cheech and Chong movies documentaries?

 

[Dean C.]

Good we need to legalize it 36 states and counting already plus hilariously it's legal in Washington DC, even a R has put out a bill in favor undercutting the Dems proposal with a 3% tax instead of a 25% tax to undercut the illegal market.

H.R.5977 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): States Reform Act

Summary of H.R.5977 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): States Reform Act

www.congress.gov

Don't care what anyone thinks this is going to happen within the next 10 years probably more like 2. The Dems will more than likely push for legalization in an attempt to Garner support in 2022

 

[Ziggidy]

It's a trap.....buyer beware.

They know who has the guns, who has purchased guns. Legalize weed and now they can control who can buy it and thus, knowing who the buyers are. Merge the database and you have a list of illegal gun owners.

Buyer beware.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

We should start and promote making all mind altering intoxication not cool.

The anti-smoking campaigns have worked pretty well to make smoking no longer cool. Something along that line would do well to promote not altering people's mental status with any chemical.

Bottom line, we shouldn't change any laws. Just change attitudes about how to live life.

I agree for pretty much any addiction issue we wish to curb. Nothing short of a culture shift (and shifts in various subcultures) will alter the landscape on anything from beer to crack. We are in the opioid crisis largely because opioids were not only socially acceptable as a prescription medicine, they were actively given out by doctors. Doctors enjoy a large amount of social standing and public trust. Social agreement was opioids were fine. Until they weren't.

Absent social agreement, you have to rule by fear of punishment. The Middle Eastern countries execute drug dealers. It's pretty effective at keeping the drug trade minimal (although not zero) and underground when it exists. We aren't going to do that.

The punishments now are insufficient to really be any deterrence. Speeding was mentioned upthread. I speed. On the interstate I routinely exceed the speed limit by 10-15 mph. I know that my risk of detection and being targeted for enforcement is low, despite being in plain sight, because the sheer number of people speeding vs the number of people enforcing the law creates a ratio deeply in my favor. I'm also willing to risk a ticket, the harshest penalty I can receive, should I be detected and targeted for enforcement.

So speeding laws don't work, right? Well, I don't drive 110mph on the interstate even in conditions it would be safe for me to do so. Trust me, I would if the potential penalty was still just a ticket. But my enjoyment of driving fast does not outweigh my enjoyment of not being arrested, so I stick to 10-15 over. Marijuana use is very similar now. Too widespread to be detected and selected for enforcement, minimal penalties if you are.

Also, the agreement of the law among society at large. I think there's wide social agreement with speeding laws existing, though were the speeds are set is often a source of disagreement. Enforcement generally takes that in to consideration. If a cop wrote me for 1mph over there would be near universal agreement he was being a ****, even though that's the law. If a cop wrote me for 30mph over, I think there would be much more agreement (though perhaps not universal) that the cop was right to write me. If a cop locked me up for 100mph over, I'd probably make the paper and everyone would think i was the **** for endangering every one. I think MJ is much closer to the 1mph over of the drug world.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I despise marijuana--it is smelly, dirty, makes people dirty and lazy and I loathe drugs that encourage people to take off their shoes.

That said . . . I hate the War on Drugs far, far more.

Marijuana is Exhibit A is my House of Repeal plan.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Not repealing laws criminalizing marijuana is a HIPPA violation.

 

[bcod151]

We are surrounded by legal states time to catch up but the real problem is our carry permits should be legal in all states!

 

[indyartisan]

I have been fighting my own war on vegetation this year, Kudzu.

 

[printcraft]

Don't care what anyone thinks this is going to happen within the next 10 years probably more like 2. The Dems will more than likely push for legalization in an attempt to Garner support in 2022

This is why you are hearing about it now.
Looking for support wherever they can get it.

 

[bcannon]

This is why you are hearing about it now.
Looking for support wherever they can get it.

Theyre scared sh!tless theyre going to be the minority come 2022 elections. God forbid they get support from performance and merit..