CPD body cam of shooting

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  • semperfi211

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    Nov 17, 2008
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    I couldn't find a thread on this. I hope it isn't a dupe. I have watched it several times. Not sure if there is a gun in his hand as he turns towards the cop at 10 seconds in the video.
     

    Ark

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    I've seen this one discussed a lot. There's another surveillance cam angle where you can see him ditch the gun behind the fence right before he turns. It's not in his hand when he raises them.

    Basically he and his gang buddies are rampaging around, shooting, being criminals and he ends up chased by this cop. Cop knows he's armed. He gets up against this fence, conceals himself throwing the gun, then turns suddenly and throws his hands up. From the cop's perspective it looks an awful lot like whipping a gun out of his hoodie pocket, and the cop shoots once.

    The cop mispercieved a gun in hand where there wasn't one, and is responsible for that. But, he was chasing an armed gangbanger in a city where gangbangers have no problem shooting cops, and he was not able to see the gun get ditched. It's a mistake, but you can see so clearly how it was the result of timing and the kid's actions. If you ran a dozen Chicago cops through that exact scenario I'd be shocked if fewer than ten fired their gun.

    Cop's life is over, he'll to go prison or the mob will get him, because he "shot an unarmed black kid with his hands up" and the details will be memory holed. I do think it was a bad, mistaken shooting, but it was also clearly a case of violent delights having violent ends. Run around with guns doing thug **** and you increase your chances of being on the receiving end of a police bullet even if it's by mistake.
     

    BigErnNP

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    Dec 20, 2020
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    I feel that it is a sad situation all around.

    I dont claim to understand the culture that he grew up around, but I think the root cause of a lot of the issues we continue to see occur with individuals in altercations with police is the fact they do not comply and/or resist in some form of manner (in this specific instance - running from the police). If individuals continue to escalate the situation, bad things can, and continue to show, will happen.

    As for society, why if someone is committing criminal acts, then why does society immediately jump on the criminals side after an incident occurs? Are we not supposed to take into account what occurred prior to said incident? In this specific incident, I believe the officer made a mistake and he will have abide by the consequences of those actions. But the officer wouldn't have been in that situation without the actions of the individual in the first place.

    I was always taught to respect police officers because they are doing a civil service to your community to protect and to serve. If you're being pulled over or given instruction, comply and fight in court, if needed. But if you choose to not to do so, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies.

    Prayers go out to the family of this child, as I know I would be crushed by this. I'd feel like I failed to help lead my child down the right path. As I truly don't think any parent wants their child to be running the streets with a gun, because the possible outcomes are not worth it.
     

    cobber

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    Sep 14, 2011
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    I feel that it is a sad situation all around.

    I dont claim to understand the culture that he grew up around, but I think the root cause of a lot of the issues we continue to see occur with individuals in altercations with police is the fact they do not comply and/or resist in some form of manner (in this specific instance - running from the police). If individuals continue to escalate the situation, bad things can, and continue to show, will happen.

    As for society, why if someone is committing criminal acts, then why does society immediately jump on the criminals side after an incident occurs? Are we not supposed to take into account what occurred prior to said incident? In this specific incident, I believe the officer made a mistake and he will have abide by the consequences of those actions. But the officer wouldn't have been in that situation without the actions of the individual in the first place.

    I was always taught to respect police officers because they are doing a civil service to your community to protect and to serve. If you're being pulled over or given instruction, comply and fight in court, if needed. But if you choose to not to do so, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies.

    Prayers go out to the family of this child, as I know I would be crushed by this. I'd feel like I failed to help lead my child down the right path. As I truly don't think any parent wants their child to be running the streets with a gun, because the possible outcomes are not worth it.
    Where was the family? Seems no one knew or cared what he was up to.
     

    JTL165

    Marksman
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    20   0   0
    May 26, 2020
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    I've seen this one discussed a lot. There's another surveillance cam angle where you can see him ditch the gun behind the fence right before he turns. It's not in his hand when he raises them.

    Basically he and his gang buddies are rampaging around, shooting, being criminals and he ends up chased by this cop. Cop knows he's armed. He gets up against this fence, conceals himself throwing the gun, then turns suddenly and throws his hands up. From the cop's perspective it looks an awful lot like whipping a gun out of his hoodie pocket, and the cop shoots once.

    The cop mispercieved a gun in hand where there wasn't one, and is responsible for that. But, he was chasing an armed gangbanger in a city where gangbangers have no problem shooting cops, and he was not able to see the gun get ditched. It's a mistake, but you can see so clearly how it was the result of timing and the kid's actions. If you ran a dozen Chicago cops through that exact scenario I'd be shocked if fewer than ten fired their gun.

    Cop's life is over, he'll to go prison or the mob will get him, because he "shot an unarmed black kid with his hands up" and the details will be memory holed. I do think it was a bad, mistaken shooting, but it was also clearly a case of violent delights having violent ends. Run around with guns doing thug **** and you increase your chances of being on the receiving end of a police bullet even if it's by mistake.

    Based on the video and information that is available I think it will be found to be a good shoot. Would a police officer put in that scenario make the same choice if that individual turned and quickly raised his bands from his side? I believe so. Decision to shoot was likely made before his hands were elevated past the shooting position.
     

    Ark

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    Feb 18, 2017
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    Based on the video and information that is available I think it will be found to be a good shoot. Would a police officer put in that scenario make the same choice if that individual turned and quickly raised his bands from his side? I believe so. Decision to shoot was likely made before his hands were elevated past the shooting position.
    Well the standard for police use of force is "reasonable officer" not "reasonable person", so if we're playing by non-clown world rules his use of force should be judged by whether another typical officer would have fired in the same situation. I think he has a strong argument for that and it would be difficult to make the claim that other typical officers wouldn't have done the same.

    But, Chicago, they change the rules for political reasons all the time. The prevailing mood in that city's leadership is "hang the cops, give the mob what they want".
     

    JTL165

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    Well the standard for police use of force is "reasonable officer" not "reasonable person", so if we're playing by non-clown world rules his use of force should be judged by whether another typical officer would have fired in the same situation. I think he has a strong argument for that and it would be difficult to make the claim that other typical officers wouldn't have done the same.

    But, Chicago, they change the rules for political reasons all the time. The prevailing mood in that city's leadership is "hang the cops, give the mob what they want".
    I am clear on the rules and totally agree! We will see what happens. So far the courts have continued to rule along those lines but it hasn't stop prosecutors from charging inappropriately
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Well the standard for police use of force is "reasonable officer" not "reasonable person", so if we're playing by non-clown world rules his use of force should be judged by whether another typical officer would have fired in the same situation. I think he has a strong argument for that and it would be difficult to make the claim that other typical officers wouldn't have done the same.

    But, Chicago, they change the rules for political reasons all the time. The prevailing mood in that city's leadership is "hang the cops, give the mob what they want".
    I’d hate to convict him, because I and probably 99% of other LEOs would have pulled the trigger. The thing that will be in contention, is he shot the kid after he dropped the gun, and the officer tells him “show me your hands.” The kid obvious complied. I still think he could get off, based on him having to make a split second decision, and based on the kids crime.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    I've got a nephew in a police academy in Ohio right now. He's the son of a small town cop... One of his other uncles was a USAF cop, then small town cop, then a federal air marshal.

    I wish wish wish he'd choose a different profession. There's no way I'd counsel anyone (especially a small town skinny white kid) into being a LEO in today's world. Just wouldn't do it.
     

    femurphy77

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    I’d hate to convict him, because I and probably 99% of other LEOs would have pulled the trigger. The thing that will be in contention, is he shot the kid after he dropped the gun, and the officer tells him “show me your hands.” The kid obvious complied. I still think he could get off, based on him having to make a split second decision, and based on the kids crime.
    Wife and I were discussing and came to the same conclusion, yes the kid was complying but it was a continuous move from turning away from the cop with gun in hand, rotating away from the cop, ditching the gun behind the fence, turning and raising hands at same time. The kid intentionally hid the fact that he was ditching the gun presumably to avoid a gun charge but in so doing also prevented the cop from seeing the gun being dropped all he saw was a hand that had a gun in it a split second before being raised to him as the perpetrator turned to face him.

    Stupid games and all that.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    I've got a nephew in a police academy in Ohio right now. He's the son of a small town cop... One of his other uncles was a USAF cop, then small town cop, then a federal air marshal.

    I wish wish wish he'd choose a different profession. There's no way I'd counsel anyone (especially a small town skinny white kid) into being a LEO in today's world. Just wouldn't do it.
    You underestimate the people who tailored for the field. Sure sometimes the public is frustrating, but if you do it the right way, you really don't care what other people think.
     

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