Could an admin please delete my account?

[Sigblitz]

Nothing really raised my eyebrows. There was a few for sale, I followed the crowd and spoke without checking the facts. What's throwing everyone is an odd question and not really contributing to the forum, but I don't see anything criminal. I think we can all learn here, me, him, us. It's messy.

 

[Sigblitz]

Sometimes I just crap on the carpet and have to clean it up.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Just have to be aware of the law and if what you're doing would be considered illegal. And when you realize you may be on the shady side, hope it disappears before you draw attention to yourself.

You keep mentioning This Law? and now someone may be on The Shady Side***
What law are they breaking?
.One sees the same dealers at all the local gun shows with an endless supply of firearms for sale with a pain free private transfer. Same men have been doing it for decades at the local shows, what law are they breaking?
ATF is at many of these shows and they could care less..

 

[Sigblitz]

Possesses with intent to sell.

 

[Sigblitz]

IC 35-47-1-3 "Dealer"
Sec. 3. "Dealer" means any person who holds himself out as a buyer and seller of handguns on a regular and continuing basis.

As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32

 

[Sigblitz]

IC 35-47-2-16 Retail handgun dealer's license; restrictions; display; prohibited sales; gun show
Sec. 16. (a) A retail dealer's business shall be carried on only in the site designated in the license. A separate license shall be required for each separate retail outlet. Whenever a licensed dealer moves the dealer's place of business, the dealer shall promptly notify the superintendent, who shall at once issue an amended license certificate valid for the balance of the license period. This subsection does not apply to sales at wholesale.

(b) The license, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the business premises in a prominent place where it can be seen easily by prospective customers.

(c) No handgun shall be sold:

(1) in violation of any provision of this chapter; or

(2) under any circumstances unless the purchaser is personally known to the seller or presents clear evidence of the purchaser's identity.

(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a retail dealer may display, sell, or transfer handguns at a gun show in accordance with this chapter and federal law.

(e) A person who knowingly or intentionally violates this section commits a Class B misdemeanor.

As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.191-1984, SEC.5; P.L.148-1987, SEC.5; P.L.158-2013, SEC.580.

Dealers are allowed to sell at gun shows, but they have to do it in accordance of Indiana code 35, chapter 47. They can only sell at their place of license, except they can sell at a gun show but still have to abide by all the other dealer laws.

That's the law. Not following the law is not an argument for it being legal. That's how it is in black and white.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

IC 35-47-1-3 "Dealer"
Sec. 3. "Dealer" means any person who holds himself out as a buyer and seller of handguns on a regular and continuing basis.

As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32

Define regular and continued.. That's awfully vague...
If a person that has 100 personally owned firearms sells 10 a year for 10 years as a person sale is that person breaking the law?

If a person buys 20 firearms a year and doesn't like an average of 8-10 of them and they get sold by private sale, is that person break ng the law?

And why do you think that making a profit selling a firearm is a bad ( breaking the law ) thing?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Private Sales in Indiana
Last updated October 15, 2018.
Indiana has no law requiring a background check on the purchaser of a firearm when the seller is not a licensed dealer.

Although a background check is not required, Indiana law expressly provides that the state’s handgun sales restrictions (i.e., the prohibited purchaser provisions) apply equally to an occasional sale, trade, or transfer between individual persons and to retail transactions between dealers and individual persons.1

In addition, a person may not sell, give, or in any other manner transfer the ownership or possession of a handgun or assault weapon to any person under age 18, except an individual acting within a parent-minor child or guardian-minor protected person relationship, or any other individual who is also acting in compliance with provisions relating to children and firearms.2

Indiana prohibits any person from selling, giving, or in any manner transferring the ownership or possession of a handgun to another individual the transferor has reasonable cause to believe:

Has been convicted of a felony or adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person seeking to obtain ownership or possession of the handgun is less than 23 years of age;
Is a drug abuser;
Is an alcohol abuser; or
Is mentally incompetent.3
A person is criminally liable for a Class D felony if he or she purchases a handgun with the intent to:

Resell or otherwise transfer the handgun to another person who the transferor knows or has reason to believe is ineligible for any reason to purchase or otherwise receive a handgun; or
Transport the handgun out of the state to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm.4
Any person who sells, barters, gives, or delivers any deadly weapon to any person in a state of intoxication, knowing him or her to be in a state of intoxication, or to any person who is in the habit of becoming intoxicated, and knowing him or her to be a person who is in the habit of becoming intoxicated, commits a Class B misdemeanor.5

Although Indiana law specifically excludes Indiana residents licensed to carry handguns from Indiana’s handgun sales requirements,6 the Indiana State Police have stated that this statute became inoperative on October 1, 2003, when Indiana licenses to carry a handgun ceased being an alternative to background checks under the federal Brady Act. See the Indiana Concealed Weapons Permitting section.

The Indiana Code does not address the private sale of rifles or shotguns.

Define occasionally....

 

[churchmouse]

You keep mentioning This Law? and now someone may be on The Shady Side***
What law are they breaking?
.One sees the same dealers at all the local gun shows with an endless supply of firearms for sale with a pain free private transfer. Same men have been doing it for decades at the local shows, what law are they breaking?
ATF is at many of these shows and they could care less..

Like anything it all depends. On the agent/what got you in their focus/trust that they can make a case if your activity's warrant.
There is actually laws limiting how many cars you can sell in a calendar year. I have had issues in the past with this. If you doing the gun flipping thing and it raises a flag they can address it as you doing "Business" without an FFL. And yes they do care.

Everyday Joe selling off his collection is not an issue.

Before this goes off the rails I would ask how many of you actually know an ATF agent. Spoke with them. Had issues with them.

 

[cce1302]

On another forum (posted just a month ago):
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=716145

Your government has the power to ruin your life if they want to.

Yeah there are ways of dealing with the ATF (We all say "it won't happen here"), but there are other ways to try to make money or to enjoy a firearm hobby without getting the ATF involved.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Like anything it all depends. On the agent/what got you in their focus/trust that they can make a case if your activity's warrant.
There is actually laws limiting how many cars you can sell in a calendar year. I have had issues in the past with this. If you doing the gun flipping thing and it raises a flag they can address it as you doing "Business" without an FFL. And yes they do care.

Everyday Joe selling off his collection is not an issue.


Before this goes off the rails I would ask how many of you actually know an ATF agent. Spoke with them. Had issues with them.

I'm from MD, I have two friends I grew up with that work at ATF, one is and agent and the other works in the firearms technology dept..
And why would you think that this conversation will go off the rails?

 

[cce1302]

Oh, and until we can get gun owners on board with repealing 18 USC 921-931, here's the ATF summary on who is a gun dealer:

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

 

[Clay Pigeon]

On another forum (posted just a month ago):
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=716145

Your government has the power to ruin your life if they want to.

Yeah there are ways of dealing with the ATF (We all say "it won't happen here"), but there are other ways to try to make money or to enjoy a firearm hobby without getting the ATF involved.

I understand that, I'm not sticking up for anyone that buys and sells here.
I'm asking the ones that make statements that flippers that buy and sell and make a profit are breaking the law..
What law are they breaking ? How many firearms does one have to sell in a year to break the law?

Is an auctioneer that sell someone's firearms as a private sale breaking the law?

 

[cce1302]

I understand that, I'm not sticking up for anyone that buys and sells here.
I'm asking the ones that make statements that flippers that buy and sell and make a profit are breaking the law..
What law are they breaking ? How many firearms does one have to sell in a year to break the law?

Is an auctioneer that sell someone's firearms as a private sale breaking the law?

Come on, I posted the answer to that in my very next post, https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...n-please-delete-my-account-2.html#post7743288.

Your tone is beginning to come across as belligerent.

 

[Expat]

I remember a year or two ago, someone posted an article that ATF had arrested a couple of gun show "dealers". The non FFL dealers that buy guns and immediately put them up for sale at the same gun show. I never heard much more about it and I see no decrease in the practice at the gun shows.

 

[KG1]

See the Savage Eagle saga.

Talk about a blast from the past.

 

[Bfish]

I know a guy who was visited at his place of work by the ATF because he was buying guns and reselling them for a profit. The way he ended up on their radar is he bought several of the same gun at a very low price; Im guessing a multiple pistol form maybe? He argued what he was doing wasn't illegal by selling them and they basically said he needed to either slow down or get a license. I asked him if they would in that case give him one then since they aren't really handing out at home FFL's anymore and he did not know.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm from MD, I have two friends I grew up with that work at ATF, one is and agent and the other works in the firearms technology dept..
And why would you think that this conversation will go off the rails?

Because. Just because. I sit/watch/read/participate. Observe. Just getting on board.

I know a few of the local ATF. And yes you will see limits. If you are wearing out the for sale boards and it raises flags they do care. They read this forum with regularity.

 

[churchmouse]

Come on, I posted the answer to that in my very next post, https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...n-please-delete-my-account-2.html#post7743288.

Your tone is beginning to come across as belligerent.

Yes it is and this is exactly why I said "Before it goes off the rails"....I see the tone of a post. I see the responses.

I had issues selling to many cars at one point in my life. No direct limit but the way they enforced the rules.
I had the ATF guys look me up one time (my choice just to see) and they said yes, I am a borderline buyer/seller. They could not give me a set number either. It is all in how they want to enforce. I slowed my roll.

Is this right....?????

I do not agree but it is not my ball field.

 

[Cameramonkey]

So if I have had over a hundred guns for better than 30 years and I decided to sell ten a year for the next ten years, certainly I will make a profit. I mean I payed 325.00 for my 8" Python with Ellison's and a Colt paper trigger job. So I sell it and some other guns for a healthy profit as private sales, please tell me what law I am breaking by making a profit reselling my personal firearms, and why would I not be a responsible person by doing so?

Guy Relford covered this on his show a couple weeks back.

Liquidating your collection is not considered being a seller. Now if you are buying guns and selling them for profit, you are a seller. But just selling off your guns you have personally owned for a while is fine. (even if you do make a long term profit due to increased value over the long term, it became collectible, etc)