Constitutional Carry, but no, it really isn't.

[CitizenX]

Tagged

 

[EyeCarry]

.

 

[drillsgt]

That's why you can still get either a 5 year or lifetime carry permit, or both if so inclined

I have seen nothing about LTCH going away
What law are you referring to that goes into effect on July 1st?

And by the way, Indiana does not have a CCW. It's a LTCH

As big of an issue as reciprocity is especially within states with constitutional carry I can't believe that IN wouldn't accommodate that.

 

[KellyinAvon]

There is a lot of misinformation out about HB 1369. Rep Smaltz (the bill's author) was on Guy's show last Saturday debunking a lot of the misinformation.

I do know we're up to 18 States with ConC now. This ain't new, neither is reciprocity or States with ConC issuing licenses.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And as gotchas like this come up (if they are valid concerns) the bill will be amended.

And by all means, if you think Smaltz is a moron and his bill will be detrimental, REACH OUT TO HIM with your concerns. If they are valid, I'm sure it will be amended to correct it with a huge "thank you".

Dont just sit here on a gun forum bitching about how its gonna screw us and then later say "I TOLD YOU SO!"

THats like sitting by the driver and seeing an oncoming train and saying nothing, then after the accident, yelling at the driver "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!??! I SAW THAT TRAIN COMING A MILE AWAY!!!"

 

[thompal]

Except for the part where you can no longer carry near a school, and have nothing to show another state that requires a license for reciprocity.

The problem with being within 1000' of school property was dealt with during the Clinton era.

 

[GIJEW]

Does the issue of reciprocity, and whether a license is a license, only apply to states that don't have ConC? Or in other words: any law abiding citizen from whatever state can carry in a ConC state without a license?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ok, here we go.

Thank you to my colleague from South Bend. His criticisms will make a stronger statute. I thank him in my capacity as a Director of the Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association.

1. The federal statute says "firearms" not just handguns. No one was freaking out over rifles or shotguns, there is no reason to freak out about abolishing the silly carry tax in Indiana because of non-enforced federal law which was nuked in Lopez in 1995.

2. If we must freak out about this federal statute, then the fix is easy, just define license as including reciprocity licenses, NBD. Can be done with quick amendment in Senate.

3. We cannot control what other states do. We should not pass laws on what other states think. Could give a you know what.

However, if we must run around the conference room table waving our hands, then simply amend the definition of carry license to include reciprocity license. This inclusion by definition is abundant in the law and can be acceomplished with an amendment in the Senate.

4 There is no secret data base with computers in the basement of Indiana Government Center, South. Guess what, we already have such databases, right this minute. It is the Triple I, it is the BMV, it is LOCAL databases which go by different names (in Lafayette it is the RMS. My RMS gives my address, my carry license, my LE contact [calling in trespassers at my office building, reckless driver or two, that stolen brass pipes I found from The Marq in the landscaping, etc.]). Why aren't the critics worried about the real, existing databases instead of the fictional ones?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The problem with being within 1000' of school property was dealt with during the Clinton era.

Our fellow INGOer is referencing the Lopez decision in my 3L at Chicago-Kent. I took my last final the middle of May 1995. It was great leaving with the entire faculty moping around like their dogs were just killed. Heads down, hands in pockets, it was joyous.

Here is Lopez in Chicago-Kent format in tribute to the Chicago-Kent faculty and their unending dreams of unlimited government:

{{meta.fullTitle}}

www.oyez.org

 

[Kirk Freeman]

. [pending approval]

 

[Alamo]

Ok, here we go.

...

1. ... because of non-enforced federal law which was nuked in Lopez in 1995.

...

I agree that the law is rarely enforced -- the only examples I can find are as add-on charge when someone brought attention to themselves by getting caught doing something else illegal, like during a drug raid or murdering someone within 1000' of a school

However, IIRC, the SCOTUS nuke of Lopez was itself "nuked" by congress when they simply passed essentially the same law but this time included the magical constitutional fairy dust of "interstate commerce." Am I not correct? I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet and am not yet ready to plunge into an internet search. But I do believe the 1000' rule is in effect (but rarely to never enforced) except for those carrying handguns with a state license.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I agree that the law is rarely enforced -- the only examples I can find are as add-on charge when someone brought attention to themselves by getting caught doing something else illegal, like during a drug raid or murdering someone within 1000' of a school

However, IIRC, the SCOTUS nuke of Lopez was itself "nuked" by congress when they simply passed essentially the same law but this time included the magical constitutional fairy dust of "interstate commerce." Am I not correct? I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet and am not yet ready to plunge into an internet search. But I do believe the 1000' rule is in effect (but rarely to never enforced) except for those carrying handguns with a state license.

I would describe "interstate commerce" as boric acid, not fairy dust, but you are correct.

 

[Alamo]

I would describe "interstate commerce" as boric acid, not fairy dust, but you are correct.

Poetaytoe, puhtawtoe.

 

[Trapper Jim]

just today I heard this bill being referred to as “Constidelusional Carry. The LEO it came from cited that it is even larger government than our current system. In comparing it to voting he said to be fair we should do away with registration requirements as well along with needed paperwork of questions to qualify to vote? Or licensing dealers on the 21st amendment? He was worried about losing the identifier of a qualified CCW Hoosier. It seems that the LE community has mixed feelings on its application as written. Again, over my head.

 

[Jaybird1980]

just today I heard this bill being referred to as “Constidelusional Carry. The LEO it came from cited that it is even larger government than our current system. In comparing it to voting he said to be fair we should do away with registration requirements as well along with needed paperwork of questions to qualify to vote? Or licensing dealers on the 21st amendment? He was worried about losing the identifier of a qualified CCW Hoosier. It seems that the LE community has mixed feelings on its application as written. Again, over my head.

I read an article blabbering about this same nonsense earlier today.
Somebody should let the LEO know that there is no qualified CCW in Hoosierville, there is qualified LTCH Hoosiers. All Hoosiers that haven't lost their rights should be qualified to carry a handgun, and soon that may be the case.

 

[cbhausen]

@Tactical Firearms Training

Paging Guy Relford, Paging Guy Relford, please pick up the white courtesy phone...

 

[Trapper Jim]

I read an article blabbering about this same nonsense earlier today.
Somebody should let the LEO know that there is no qualified CCW in Hoosierville, there is qualified LTCH Hoosiers. All Hoosiers that haven't lost their rights should be qualified to carry a handgun, and soon that may be the case.

I am forgiving to those that misuse the terms as well. CCW vs LTCH, Clips vs Magazines, Etc. But his point was that people can and do qualify now and get a permit to prove it to others. I am not much for arguing with a man with a gun at the range.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I am forgiving to those that misuse the terms as well. CCW vs LTCH, Clips vs Magazines, Etc. But his point was that people can and do qualify now and get a permit to prove it to others. I am not much for arguing with a man with a gun at the range.

I am usually pretty tolerant of terms being used, but less so with LEO using wrong language that they should fully understand the difference of. Sounds like you probably made a wise decision.

 

[kickbacked]

Now the bad news. The specific piece of Federal law in 18 USC 922(q) that lets you carry a loaded handgun within 1000 feet of a school (roughly two blocks from the edge of school property in all directions) states "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State,"

On its face, this fails the requirements of 922(q), meaning that if you live within two blocks of a school you CANNOT leave your home property with a loaded handgun, nor can you travel within two blocks of a school with a loaded handgun.

If you live in the average Indiana small town or city, this is very bad.

What? you cant leave your house with a firearm if you live within a certain distance of a school, but if i remember correctly you can carry in your car if you are picking someone up from the school?

 

[Bill of Rights]

What? you cant leave your house with a firearm if you live within a certain distance of a school, but if i remember correctly you can carry in your car if you are picking someone up from the school?

Subject to Lopez, a case I don’t pretend to have read but sounds relevant, the Federal Gun Free School Zone act made it a criminal act to be in possession of a firearm within 1000 feet of a (K-12) school, having the gun within the confines of your home being an exception, absent a license issued by the state in which the GFSZ exists being issued.

violation of federal law vs compliance with state law, as I’m reading the question.
Disclaimer: This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I also did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Blessings,
Bill