Carry Rotation Logic

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  • ECS686

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    Pfft, i rewatched John Wick 1-3 last week, so I should be good training wise the rest of the year.

    While you are joking the sad thing there really are folks that think they are better than they are. Here is a comment from someone when a page posted about a carry match.

    And there are many like him!!!!

    IMG_4250.jpeg
     

    green46105

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    my decision any more comes down to working outside or going out. if im working outside its the glock 17 with 2 spare mags. going out it is either the canik mete sft or when the new holster comes in it will be the canik rival along with the canik tp9 elite sc that is my car gun. i believe in the extra car gun because going to get the one off your hip is an almost impossible task so the car gun is easy access incase of emergency. in the past i used to change up just because i liked a 1911 over a striker, though the 1911 phase is almost completely out..... almost lol.
     

    FNparabellum

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    I apologize if this has been cussed and discussed. I see that a lot of folks who EDC carry different guns at times. I suppose if someone's EDC isn't practical for summer wear, one might want to go to a pocket piece, but it seems to me that the folks who believe in carrying multiple guns at different times aren't concerned with that so much. Can someone explain their thoughts on the benefits of rotating different handguns into their daily routine?
    Different clothing is really the only thing that makes me change mine. That being said its very rare and ill tend to stick with just one all year round.
     

    breakingcontact

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    Can someone explain their thoughts on the benefits of rotating different handguns into their daily routine?

    Objectively, it is best to carry the same thing, in the same location, everyday.

    Pragmatically, if you need to switch it up to consistently carry, then that's better than not carrying at all.

    I think if most of us were honest though, we switch it up due to boredom. :)
     

    ECS686

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    Can someone explain their thoughts on the benefits of rotating different handguns into their daily routine?

    Objectively, it is best to carry the same thing, in the same location, everyday.

    Pragmatically, if you need to switch it up to consistently carry, then that's better than not carrying at all.

    I think if most of us were honest though, we switch it up due to boredom. :)
    I will speak for me and then give some explanation to why it’s not always as bad a thing as most think.

    For me I carry a multitude of guns however I have carried a multitude of guns throughout my professional armed career so I have enough “muscle memory” they all sort of just fall into place. I also carry different guns because as I am an instructor in my retired agency years I sometimes have to. If I go to a Glock class I can’t carry my Sig or S&W. If I’m teaching a revolver class I can’t carry my Glock. If I am helping with a Red Dit class I only have 1 gun that has a red dot and that’s a Glock 34 etc etc

    Now while there is t anything wrong with staying with one platform for consistency and manual of arms etc (I mean agencies have done it for years) it’s each individual if they are proficient in using any firearm is the more important thing than if they strapped on an HK today instead of a Glock from last month. To me (and I base this in seeing human performance from training line officers to SORT/SWAT troops to seeing average armed citizen doing that once in a blue moon IDPA match when it comes time it doesn’t really matter if they changed guns the ones that flub up something within the real parameters of how a self defense shooting happen would have flubbed it up either way. That whole “Assessment “ thing as we call them Application shooters

    Now a technical competitive shooter when a .20 of a second makes or breaks more of a thing.

    People blend the competition Technical into the self defense Application side

    Again just an observation seeing/training and being in agency ranges training and private classes and since the revolver days!
     

    Drail

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    Any guy who has carried and shot extensively with one gun for many years has got my attention - he won't just shoot at you - he'll hit you exactly where he wants. I have carried a DA snub .44 Spl. since 1986 and practiced and shot matches with it. It has become an extension of my hand. It's all I will probably ever carry.
     

    wcd

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    Any guy who has carried and shot extensively with one gun for many years has got my attention - he won't just shoot at you - he'll hit you exactly where he wants. I have carried a DA snub .44 Spl. since 1986 and practiced and shot matches with it. It has become an extension of my hand. It's all I will probably ever carry.
    This guess I will never understand the carry of the month crowd. This coming from someone that carry’s a Government size 1911 and a P365 daily year round.
     

    green46105

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    Any guy who has carried and shot extensively with one gun for many years has got my attention - he won't just shoot at you - he'll hit you exactly where he wants. I have carried a DA snub .44 Spl. since 1986 and practiced and shot matches with it. It has become an extension of my hand. It's all I will probably ever carry.
    i am shoot extremely well with all my guns and carry many of them. i guarantee ill hit you with any of them exactly where i want. while it is not bad that one only carries one, you can carry different ones and be good enough to hit where you want. Although i will give you that to be good with a snubbie is impressive. i have one and have learned to hit with it but it would be the least acurate gun i have it stays in the vault. although i have always loved a snubbie.
     

    ECS686

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    i am shoot extremely well with all my guns and carry many of them. i guarantee ill hit you with any of them exactly where i want. while it is not bad that one only carries one, you can carry different ones and be good enough to hit where you want. Although i will give you that to be good with a snubbie is impressive. i have one and have learned to hit with it but it would be the least acurate gun i have it stays in the vault. although i have always loved a snubbie.
    Just an FYI even the most expert marksman only has a 25% hit percentage in an actual shooting.

    Take a Range Master course with a 90% or Bakersfield qual as that is a true gauge of one’s real skill!
     

    wcd

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    Just an FYI even the most expert marksman only has a 25% hit percentage in an actual shooting.

    Take a Range Master course with a 90% or Bakersfield qual as that is a true gauge of one’s real skill!
    I would maintain that there are many skills that lead to hits on target, and many of them have nothing to do with trigger discipline etc.
     

    green46105

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    Just an FYI even the most expert marksman only has a 25% hit percentage in an actual shooting.

    Take a Range Master course with a 90% or Bakersfield qual as that is a true gauge of one’s real skill!
    oh i agree a good base aint nothing for real experience. even the caps system we shoot at work once a year isnt a great substitute for real worl experience. but you have to build on somthing. i understand adrenaline, cover, people moving and other people wondering into the field all must be taken into account and some of those cannnot be controlled at all.
     
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    Oct 5, 2022
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    The only concern I have with a rotation is if the guns have different mechanics than each other. IE if one has a thumb safety or is DA/SA where the other(s) do not. I switch between my M&P Shield2.0, compact and duty sized guns depending on my context and I am not the least bit worried about it because they all use the same mechanics.
     
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    Oct 5, 2022
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    I seem to recall this coming up before and we had some of our top experts give their opinion. As I recall, the consensus was that if you are a serious operator you will only carry and shoot one particular model,of pistol.
    Having trained with a number of the best trainers in the country I can tell you that they frequently will carry different guns both to try out new things and due to context. some even switch between striker fired and revolvers. Its all about competence. I would not recommend that to a new shooter or anyone who is not at least a B class shooter in uspsa or a similar skill level.
     
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    Just an FYI even the most expert marksman only has a 25% hit percentage in an actual shooting.

    Take a Range Master course with a 90% or Bakersfield qual as that is a true gauge of one’s real skill!
    This is not true. The 25% hit percentage is nationally the average number for LEOs. Trained expert marksman civilians and actual expert marksman LEOs hit at a much higher percentage. In Rangemaster classes Tom makes fun of people shooting at that number. He expects his students to do much better in a real situation.
     

    ECS686

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    This is not true. The 25% hit percentage is nationally the average number for LEOs. Trained expert marksman civilians and actual expert marksman LEOs hit at a much higher percentage. In Rangemaster classes Tom makes fun of people shooting at that number. He expects his students to do much better in a real situation.
    I quoted LEO stats. With that perhaps I should have articulated better. That’s not going to include the types that go to training like Range Master or Gunsite or Dave Spaulding etc so if you went to Range Master IDC like I did most folks were not your average shooters.

    With that those numbers are still relevant within a few percentage points either way from year to year. I’ve taught at FLETC I see agency stuff all the time. Agency staff have a 10% 80% 10% breakdown. Top 10% are the shooters you refer to as expert always maxing quals and they are the ones that go to legitimate training in their own time and dime. Then the 80% are the bulk most pass by 10 -20 points and never pick up a gun Tim they have to qual. Then the bottom 10 well that’s why agencies dumb stuff down

    I also teach private sector now and see close to the same breakdown. Especially with newly match competitors.
     
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    I quoted LEO stats. With that perhaps I should have articulated better. That’s not going to include the types that go to training like Range Master or Gunsite or Dave Spaulding etc so if you went to Range Master IDC like I did most folks were not your average shooters.

    With that those numbers are still relevant within a few percentage points either way from year to year. I’ve taught at FLETC I see agency stuff all the time. Agency staff have a 10% 80% 10% breakdown. Top 10% are the shooters you refer to as expert always maxing quals and they are the ones that go to legitimate training in their own time and dime. Then the 80% are the bulk most pass by 10 -20 points and never pick up a gun Tim they have to qual. Then the bottom 10 well that’s why agencies dumb stuff down

    I also teach private sector now and see close to the same breakdown. Especially with newly match competitors.
    For LEO's that makes sense, but they have a very low percentage of truly expert marksmen (their qual designation not withstanding) outside of maybe SWAT. Most of their qualifications are little more than sobriety tests.

    I expect you would see a lot of misses also in beginning competition shooters at matches, but again, not experts.

    There are multiple real life examples of shooters with very high hit percentages. They typically have one thing in common: they actually train and practice. Unfortunately, most of the data about our context of gunfights is gleaned from people who are barely competent, not experts so what we are seeing are very skewed conclusions about what is and what is not possible. The vast majority of gun owners are barely scratching the surface on what is possible.

    When Hearne comes in July, Is he doing "who wins, loses, and why?" he will explain in detail why most of these numbers are what they are and why true experts can perform on a much higher level.

    Good talk. I'm happy to continue discussing if you want.
     

    ECS686

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    For LEO's that makes sense, but they have a very low percentage of truly expert marksmen (their qual designation not withstanding) outside of maybe SWAT. Most of their qualifications are little more than sobriety tests.

    I expect you would see a lot of misses also in beginning competition shooters at matches, but again, not experts.

    There are multiple real life examples of shooters with very high hit percentages. They typically have one thing in common: they actually train and practice. Unfortunately, most of the data about our context of gunfights is gleaned from people who are barely competent, not experts so what we are seeing are very skewed conclusions about what is and what is not possible. The vast majority of gun owners are barely scratching the surface on what is possible.

    When Hearne comes in July, Is he doing "who wins, loses, and why?" he will explain in detail why most of these numbers are what they are and why true experts can perform on a much higher level.

    Good talk. I'm happy to continue discussing if you want.
    Why I still go to classes all these years later. Always learn some good stuff.

    And thankful others and myself have been able to reach out and get some here in the area.

    No matter how “seasoned” one thinks they are or how much Agency Instructor stuff they have I can’t recommend going to a vetted class (Range Master, Hearn Weems Spaulding etc) everyone will learn a lot.
     
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