Can you defend your attached garage as you would your home?

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  • actaeon277

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    Around four hours later, officers were called to the 6600 block of California Avenue for another home invasion. A woman there said she was fast asleep and woke up to find a man in her home.
    The woman said the man sexually battered her in her home and then ran off with money he stole.


    Nathaniel Asbury, 21, of Hammond, was charged with two counts of rape, burglary, armed robbery, criminal confinement, intimidation, pointing a firearm and resisting police, according to police. Elias Costello, 18, of East Chicago, was charged with rape, burglary, armed robbery, criminal confinement and sexual battery. Alexis Lietz, 18, of Hammond, was charged with conspiracy to commit burglary and conspiracy to commit armed robbery.
    A 16-year-old boy was also taken into custody, police said. His charges were not announced, and his case will be handled in juvenile court.


    HAMMOND, Ind. (WLS) -- A northwest Indiana school superintendent is being treated for head injuries after he was severely beaten during an apparent home invasion in the 6700 block of Indi-Illi Parkway in Hammond.
    Police said Walter Watkins' sister found him Tuesday morning when she stopped by his house to take him breakfast. He was conscious but unable to talk with officers. Police think he was hit in the head with a blunt object.






    they held a screwdriver to one victim’s neck and threatened them with a shotgun.


    I guess home invasions up here are a bit different.
     

    actaeon277

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    I know, right?

    But there are plenty of home commandos right here, posting in this thread, that seem to have no sense of the gray - that all is black and white. That ANY uninvited person is going to be shot regardless of circumstances. That's damned foolish.

    Well, the initial question is, does an attached garage count as part of the "house".

    Yes. It does.
     

    eldirector

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    Whatever you do has to meet the "reasonable" test. There are several levels of force between zero force and deadly force that could be reasonable depending on the circumstances.

    [1] - Indiana Code 35-41-3-2
    I'd look at your quoted code again. "Reasonable" is the test for a lot of situations, but NOT for your home, curtilage or occupied motor vehicle.

    BTW: Lots of courts cases out there regarding "curtilage". All agree that the attached garage most certainly is, and even the area around your house is included (hence, the definition).
     

    ECS686

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    Well, the initial question is, does an attached garage count as part of the "house".

    Yes. It does.
    Let me interject. Yes you have more protections with an attached garage. A lot of time physical layout can be a factor. Even though you as a homeowner has a right to be there I have seen a few cases in my Municiple LE career where Prosecutors have seriously consideted or actually charged the homeowner. Usually because of a bad shoot (and usually over property only as the Honeowner if pumped up) And one where the kid was unarmed and shot while he ran away and they did not charge the homeowner.

    And more importantly were they just kids snooping, a drunk neighbor in the wrong house Or did someone attack you when you confronted them etc????

    Articulation is important if its the latter Just because you could be legally covered doesn't always mean you should. And Prosecutor Discretion plays a big part. And for that it often take $$$ and a good Attorney.

    So like the question can you use deadly force because someone is in an attached garage? It depends!

    Again just respectfully discussing
     

    churchmouse

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    Let me interject. Yes you have more protections with an attached garage. A lot of time physical layout can be a factor. Even though you as a homeowner has a right to be there I have seen a few cases in my Municiple LE career where Prosecutors have seriously consideted or actually charged the homeowner. Usually because of a bad shoot (and usually over property only as the Honeowner if pumped up) And one where the kid was unarmed and shot while he ran away and they did not charge the homeowner.

    And more importantly were they just kids snooping, a drunk neighbor in the wrong house Or did someone attack you when you confronted them etc????

    Articulation is important if its the latter Just because you could be legally covered doesn't always mean you should. And Prosecutor Discretion plays a big part. And for that it often take $$$ and a good Attorney.

    So like the question can you use deadly force because someone is in an attached garage? It depends!

    Again just respectfully discussing
    You state what should be obvious. Dont shoot anyone running away. Not good.
    If not attacked dont shoot them.
    If you are able snatch that bastige up and detain......they have no business or right to bein your home and yup, the attached is an extension of the home.
    My detached is the shop I have spent thousands to tool up and it is a revenue stream when I have the work in that area. If I catch you in or even around there you have traversed an 8' privacy fence and at that point fair game. Not to shoot.....to be clear.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    I'd look at your quoted code again. "Reasonable" is the test for a lot of situations, but NOT for your home, curtilage or occupied motor vehicle.

    BTW: Lots of courts cases out there regarding "curtilage". All agree that the attached garage most certainly is, and even the area around your house is included (hence, the definition).
    I'm looking at the section quoted below... the use of force must be "reasonable" and "reasonably" necessary for home, curtilage or occupied vehicle.

    Are you seeing something else?

    (d) A person:

    (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person; and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
     

    actaeon277

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    I'm looking at the section quoted below... the use of force must be "reasonable" and "reasonably" necessary for home, curtilage or occupied vehicle.

    Are you seeing something else?


    (c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force.  However, a person:

    (1) is justified in using deadly force;  and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.  No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

    (d) A person:

    (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person;  and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
     

    ditcherman

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    In the country, hopefully.
    I know, right?

    But there are plenty of home commandos right here, posting in this thread, that seem to have no sense of the gray - that all is black and white. That ANY uninvited person is going to be shot regardless of circumstances. That's damned foolish.
    This is the second time you've made this up; who is saying this? Sorry if I missed it, but please find this quote if it's in here.
     

    gregr

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    Different scenerio Someone in your space robbing your person is a LOT different than someone in a garage
    No, there is NOT any difference. When you`re being robbed and confronted by a thug who has broken into your HOME, you ARE AT RISK. These thugs put themselves in this plight by believing they may enter YOUR place at will.

    "The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim. If a felon attacks you and lives, he will reasonably conclude that he can do it again. By submitting to him, you not only imperil your own life, but you jeopardize the lives of others"-Jeff Cooper
     

    ashby koss

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    1) IANAL.

    2) I think it would depend on state laws and wording. A homestead and personal property included everything ON your parcel of land. Especially in indiana where castle laws protect retreating on your personal property. I would say get a lawyer to double down to make sure. Probably, a 30minutes talk is all it would take.
     

    SheepDog4Life

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    (c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force.  However, a person:

    (1) is justified in using deadly force;  and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.  No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

    (d) A person:

    (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person;  and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
    Each and every part of that has a reasonableness disclaimer... which would be determined by a prosecutor/grand jury/jury. Shooting a burglar in the back while he's poaching tools from your tool chest in the garage... might not fly.
    Yes. The words right after that part.
    Right after (d) is (e)

    (e) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:

    (1) is justified in using deadly force; and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    only if that force is justified under subsection (c).
    which includes reasonableness qualifiers AND must be justified under (c) which is the standard stand your ground self defense from imminent death or serious bodily injury. (that little dangly sentence fragment at the end applies to the whole section)

    There is no "I shot him cuz he was stealing my stuff out of my garage" defense.
     

    actaeon277

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    They don't call it the Region for nuthin'


    Sturgis said he hopes the shooting will send a message to the younger people who want to cause trouble from Chicago.

    "We're in Indiana, they [are] from Illinois, they don't know people got permits to carry guns, so bang bang, that is what happened," Sturgis said.
     

    DadSmith

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    I understand when an intruder enters your home self defense is in order but what about entering an attached garage? Someone enters your garage with thievery in mind and you have no idea IF they are armed. Shoot? No Shoot? Seems like you should have some other option than politely asking them them to leave? What's your thoughts INGO.
    I defend my outbuildings as my own home. Heck I defend my property that way as well especially at night. Unless I'm told someone is coon or coyote hunting that night.

    I usually have a few rules for hunting.
    1 must be someone I know and trust.
    2 never shoot towards the house or outbuildings. Yes I've had to repair windows and holes in metal in past from people who no longer hunt in my woods.
    3 pick up all garbage take it out with you. If you must go #2 don't leave the TP in the woods it is just nasty. At least cover it.
    4 do not destroy property
     

    eldirector

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    I tell ya. Reading comprehension has really gone down hill. That, or folks are purposefully obtuse.

    IC specifically states "reasonable or deadly" is acceptable for unlawful entry of your home/curtilage. The words are quite literally written in Indiana Code.

    Getting wrapped up in side conversations" and "what ifs" if interesting, but a distraction. This has nothing to do with "stealing your stuff". It has nothing to do with shooting anyone and everyone who visits your home. Nothing to do with feeling remorse. Nothing to do with an aggressive prosecutor and/or terrible defense attorney.

    Should you follow the exact wording of IC? That's up to you, and what the situation warrants. But, the words absolutely do exist in our state law.
     
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