Can you defend your attached garage as you would your home?

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  • NHT3

    Grandmaster
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    If some one is in my attached garage I'm not even unlocking the door to my garage little alone opening the door.

    Everything in my garage can be replace by insurance.

    They decide to breach the entry door from the garage to the kitchen/breakfast nook, then they are in a world of hurt trying to enter through that 36 inch choke point.
    Sorry but insurance does not cover my sense of security :nono:
     

    eldirector

    Grandmaster
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    Apr 29, 2009
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    If no property/possessions are worth dying for, why do criminals risk their own lives every day committing robbery/burglary? Totally their decision to use force to take someone's stuff.

    IANAL: attached garage 100% "your house". Detached garage/barn 100% curtilage.

    Catching a thief in the act, telling them to "stop", and "stay where you are" is 100% reasonable (not deadly) force. Their choice if if they flee, wait for the cops, or turn it into a forcible felony.
     

    Snapdragon

    know-it-all tart
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    Nov 5, 2013
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    Logically (IANAL either) if someone has breached either the overhead door or the service door, they have entered part of the home, since most passage doors between garage and home are not as secure as the doors on the outer perimeter of the house and garage.
     

    MongooseLaw

    Sharpshooter
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    Jun 5, 2019
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    There's nothing on my property worth someone throwing their life away for.

    Letting thieves help themselves has never had a happy ending in every situation I've seen locally. First it's one, then they come back with buddies, then they want to go a little further into the property.
    Law enforcement is going to have a chuckle if you expect them to do anything about it, it's logistically unreasonable to expect much help on matters like this. Some cameras that could ID perps will actually help, but that's about all that can be done on that side of things.

    I'd rather take the risk of stopping a thief than wait until they come back with friends.

    And it's your home, it's your residence. Since when would you be unjustified in defending your residence just because your car is also in that room? A barn might be a bit of a stretch unless you have no trespassing signs.
    Also, it would be advisable for security reasons for everyone to lock out the emergency release on their garage door, as that is the easiest way for a thief to gain entry to your garage.

    Hello, as part owner of a garage door company and service tech for several years, I'm just trying to understand your statement about the emergency release. How would a thief gain access to this as it is on the inside of the garage? Best way to "lock out" your door if youre leaving for a length of time or youre just paranoid would be leaving it hooked to the opener and then unplugging it.

    I just dont want misinformation being spread and I've never heard of an emergency release for your garage door being located outside of the door/garage itself?
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
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    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
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    Sorry my question should have been stated more clearly. The door is open and I'm in the garage and perps stroll in and start to remove things from my vehicle that they desire without presenting any threat. Do I have options other than "please stop stealing my property and leave". It seems like the law is in the perps corner if they aren't threatening my life.. Deadly force use in the drive way is not an option to protect property but once they have entered the garage does that change the situation?
    From my understanding the answer in this situation is No, they have to threaten you with force or use force against you or someone else.
     

    dudley0

    Nobody Important
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    Mar 19, 2010
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    Grant County
    Hello, as part owner of a garage door company and service tech for several years, I'm just trying to understand your statement about the emergency release. How would a thief gain access to this as it is on the inside of the garage? Best way to "lock out" your door if youre leaving for a length of time or youre just paranoid would be leaving it hooked to the opener and then unplugging it.

    I just dont want misinformation being spread and I've never heard of an emergency release for your garage door being located outside of the door/garage itself?
    Many vids out there showing people with something as simple as a wire coat hanger gaining access to an overhead door. I put zip ties on mine to make it harder to pull. I also do not have windows in my garage doors, which makes it easier to do.

    It surprises me that you are in that field and have never heard of this. I am not overly worried about it at the new house as I have sensors on the doors as well.
     

    wcd

    Grandmaster
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    Dec 2, 2011
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    Off the Grid In Tennessee
    I let my security team worry about these matters...
    very similar to our team except two LGD's and Jack very effective, all but eliminates uninvited individuals.

    But on a serious note I think no trespassing Signs and small security team would go a long way to deter intruders. Why not make it real easy to select another location.
     

    Joniki

    Master
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    Nov 5, 2013
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    very similar to our team except two LGD's and Jack very effective, all but eliminates uninvited individuals.

    But on a serious note I think no trespassing Signs and small security team would go a long way to deter intruders. Why not make it real easy to select another location.
    Good looking kids...
     

    SheepDog4Life

    Natural Gray Man
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    Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-41-3-2

    (d) A person:

    (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person;  and

    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;

    if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.

    IANAL, so no idea if the attached garage is "dwelling" or "curtilage", but it is one or the other. Both are covered in Indiana code.

    IMO, the "reasonable force" and "reasonably believes" are what would be the key points... what 12 people think is "reasonable force" for someone who just busted in through your front door might not be the same for someone stealing tools or whatever out in the garage with their back to you.
     

    MongooseLaw

    Sharpshooter
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    9   0   0
    Jun 5, 2019
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    Albion
    Many vids out there showing people with something as simple as a wire coat hanger gaining access to an overhead door. I put zip ties on mine to make it harder to pull. I also do not have windows in my garage doors, which makes it easier to do.

    It surprises me that you are in that field and have never heard of this. I am not overly worried about it at the new house as I have sensors on the doors as well.

    I see what you mean, coat hanger over the top section could probably get to the emergency release rope. Yes you could zip tie the rope or remove it I suppose. Another way if youre really paranoid is engaging your slide lock at night, but I would not recommend it if you don't remember to release it every morning...

    It literally never comes up in my day to day business...we install and repair, I don't take theft reports or offer advice for thwarting imaginative meth heads.
     

    dudley0

    Nobody Important
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    Mar 19, 2010
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    Grant County
    I have been doing the zip tie trick for a while now. Only time I had trouble with it was when we lost power with a vehicle inside. Made it tougher to pop the tie because the rope wants you to pull one direction but an SUV was in the way.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    We all need to remember that in today's world we are at the mercy of human judgement from all angles.

    Be it the investigating officer, the local prosecutor or even the intruder (and kinfolk) themselves, others have a say in your outcome.

    Under the right or wrong circumstances, you can be 100% legal and still lose your entire worth fighting your case.
     
    Last edited:

    foszoe

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    IF I decided I was going to confront someone in an out building, I would be yelling citizens arrest.
     

    IndyBeerman

    Was a real life Beerman.....
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    Jun 2, 2008
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    Plainfield
    Sorry but insurance does not cover my sense of security :nono:


    How about your ability to be alive?

    You're not going to be able to clear a garage like you would a room in your house where you still have the advantage.

    The likelihood of two perps being spaced away from each other is great, one is more than likely going to have more than random thought about that door opening. You lose ALL advantages you have at your disposal the second that door opens.

    I'm not willing to give up that advantage by now standing in the very choke point and focus of the bad guy or guys who may be in my garage.
    You may want to, but if you're severely injured or dead in the entry way of the door from the garage to the main home you're not much use to the rest of your family.

    There's 20 feet to the left of my entry door and 10 feet to the right. I'm not poking my watermelon head out that door because I can't see those areas without that happening, and I have not have the chance to master Superman's X-Ray vision yet to do that, and a wireless camera is not a option because of the distance to a access point or my main router.

    Like I said, insurance will take care of the items in my garage, they open that door to the house and it's game on for the idiots, cause Hell will rain down on them.
     

    Timjoebillybob

    Grandmaster
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    1   0   0
    Feb 27, 2009
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    Anyone know the outcome of the case from white county, guy shot someone breaking into his pole barn outside his house.. IIRC it was from a distance with a rifle.
    When was this? I live in white county and haven't heard of one like this. Closest I can remember was either last winter or winter before. IIRC There was a string of trespassing/thefts, a guy and his friend were protecting his home/barn/something. Guy was outside and came in and his friend shot him by mistake.
    So this still begs the question. You here a stir in your backyard, you see motion around an outbuilding such as a detached garage or barn. You grab your night stick, bat, CZ, then investigate to find an ***hole stealing your stuff, are you in the right to engage and if need be, drop the perpetrator?
    Very iffy. See below for curtilage.
    Sorry my question should have been stated more clearly. The door is open and I'm in the garage and perps stroll in and start to remove things from my vehicle that they desire without presenting any threat. Do I have options other than "please stop stealing my property and leave". It seems like the law is in the perps corner if they aren't threatening my life.. Deadly force use in the drive way is not an option to protect property but once they have entered the garage does that change the situation?
    Yes, you can use "reasonable force", you can attempt to restrain him, maybe pepper spray, etc. Lethal force would be a maybe. If an unattached garage, attached would be a different story.
    If no property/possessions are worth dying for, why do criminals risk their own lives every day committing robbery/burglary? Totally their decision to use force to take someone's stuff.

    IANAL: attached garage 100% "your house". Detached garage/barn 100% curtilage.

    Catching a thief in the act, telling them to "stop", and "stay where you are" is 100% reasonable (not deadly) force. Their choice if if they flee, wait for the cops, or turn it into a forcible felony.
    I agree with the attached garage, it is part of the enclosed structure of the dwelling. Detached maybe maybe not. Curtilage isn't defined in the IC, but is discussed in several IN Supreme court decisions. It's far from cut and dried. It depends on a number of variable, distance from home, ease of access, expectation of privacy, and others. A garage in your backyard 5-10 ft from your house surrounded by a 6 ft privacy fence with a locked gate, probably curtilage. A barn 150 yrds away, no fence, and sitting on the edge of a road, maybe not.
    Hello, as part owner of a garage door company and service tech for several years, I'm just trying to understand your statement about the emergency release. How would a thief gain access to this as it is on the inside of the garage? Best way to "lock out" your door if youre leaving for a length of time or youre just paranoid would be leaving it hooked to the opener and then unplugging it.

    I just dont want misinformation being spread and I've never heard of an emergency release for your garage door being located outside of the door/garage itself?
    Besides the mentioned coat hanger, cordless drill with a hole saw. Most garage doors are either thin fiberglass or vinyl with rigid foam insulation. Doesn't make much noise to cut through.
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
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    .
    Maybe my garage is different, but thieves would need some sort of vehicle to get away with much of anything, and time to load it up.
     

    IndyBeerman

    Was a real life Beerman.....
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    5   0   0
    Jun 2, 2008
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    Plainfield
    Besides the mentioned coat hanger, cordless drill with a hole saw. Most garage doors are either thin fiberglass or vinyl with rigid foam insulation. Doesn't make much noise to cut through.
    Most garage doors I've seen since I had the garage built at my old house in 1995 and the new door that was installed here at my current home in 08 are light weight steel/aluminum doors. A hole saw will make a decent enough chatter to alert a dog.

    Now a Step Drill bit that reaches out to a 1 & 1/8 doesn't make a whole lot of noise. Me and a friend decided to see how easy it was to do when he had his door replaced with a new one.
    Took all of 30 seconds to slowly drill a 1 inch hole in the door right below the attachment bolts to the door and a coat hanger to reach in and hook the release rope, twist the hanger
    to take out all of the slack and pop the release

    Because of this, I put a 1/4 steel backing plate re-enforcing the area there, It'll now take some effort to get through.

    Most people fail to realize that their garage door is what I consider the weakest entry point into a home. Throwing the locking slide latch
    is your best bet to help prevent that.
    Maybe my garage is different, but thieves would need some sort of vehicle to get away with much of anything, and time to load it up.
    Same here, plus even though it's in my garage, my tool chest is locked and it is not something a single person is going tp grab and carry by himself.
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,021
    113
    Martinsville
    Hello, as part owner of a garage door company and service tech for several years, I'm just trying to understand your statement about the emergency release. How would a thief gain access to this as it is on the inside of the garage? Best way to "lock out" your door if youre leaving for a length of time or youre just paranoid would be leaving it hooked to the opener and then unplugging it.

    I just dont want misinformation being spread and I've never heard of an emergency release for your garage door being located outside of the door/garage itself?
     
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