Bystanders Watch Rape, Do Nothing...

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  • JTScribe

    Chicago Typewriter
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    Unfortunately, the bystander effect is not new. Kitty Genovese in the mid-1960s immediately comes to mind. I think cell phones have made it worse. Everyone assumes somebody else will do something because we all have phones to call 911. Or they’re filming for social media.
    Do some Googling, the Kitty Genovese story is not as it was reported.
     

    shibumiseeker

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    near Bedford on a whole lot of land.
    Do some Googling, the Kitty Genovese story is not as it was reported.
    No, but it did stimulate some good research.

    I teach my EMT students that most people are afraid to intervene when something happens. Most people have to be trained to react. By getting training I expect them to evaluate and take action as necessary.

    In a group setting an individual may be less likely to take action but the odds of someone in the group doing so goes up.

    The hypothesis fall short because group dynamics is rarely simple. Each group is different and in some groups the unwillingness to intervene will be much stronger, such as on a train where social conditioning for those who regularly ride is to never intervene no matter what. It was that group conditioning that allowed 9/11 to happen under those specific circumstances. The public was trained to do nothing if something bad happened on a plane. Now when something bad happens on a plane the miscreant is usually beaten to a pulp.
     

    Flash-hider

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    Seems that stories of people not intervening when a crime such as this is going on go back several decades. It seems that some State's passed legislation making it a crime if bystanders didn't intervene, they themselves would be facing charges. Heck, even the series ending episode of Seinfeld was about this.
     

    Leo

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    As I remember, we had two young lovers walking through Military park in Indianapolis several years ago. For no other reason than they were an easy target, they were jumped and badly beaten by a group of young thugs. The crowd stood there and made video commentary.

    I have thrice been the only man that stepped forward when the parasites were causing violence in a public, family type gathering. One time as I approached the punks said "who is going to make us" I thought the dozen men I had made eye contact with and motioned would would be standing behind me. Just one old man with a cane wearing a US Navy hat. 50 men sat on the blankets with their women and watched, not enough honor and testosterone to fill a shot glass, and that was 20 years ago. . I am getting too old for this crap.
     
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    churchmouse

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    As I remember, we had two young lovers walking through Military park in Indianapolis several years ago. For no other reason than they were an easy target, they were jumped and badly beaten by a group of young thugs. The crowd stood there and made video commentary.

    I have thrice been the only man that stepped forward when the parasites were causing violence in a public, family type gathering. One time as I approached the punks said "who is going to make us" I thought the dozen men I had made eye contact with and motioned would would be standing behind me. Just one old man with a cane wearing a US Navy hat. 50 men sat on the blankets with their women and watched, not enough honor and testosterone to fill a shot glass, and that was 20 years ago. . I am getting too old for this crap.
    Been exactly where you were. More than once. To many details to type out and statutes etc.
     

    Ark

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    That guy who defended himself against a BLM mob that cornered him right after murdering someone else here in Indy got changed. We protect the criminal and prosecute the Samaritan here, too. When you make criminals into your most privileged and protected citizens, people walk away and mind their own business. :dunno:
     

    Frank_N_Stein

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    There have been plenty of INGOers that have stated that they won't use their EDC to save the lives of another that isn't a family member, so why are we surprised that no one assisted? Failure to act/assist happens every day, you just don't always hear about it.
     

    Timjoebillybob

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    People have cowered in fear during violent events for years and years. An entire plane full of people allowed a few little knife wielding dip ****s to fly the planes into buildings. Only one group of people in the 3 planes did a ****ing thing. And they did it. All the way.
    But those sorry asses in the other 2 are no better or even worse than those on that train.
    I'll have to disagree just a bit about the people in the 3 other planes. At the time people had been told for 30-40 years or more not to try to stop hijackers. Before then the scum were hijacking the plane to go to a usually communist country and the people would be set free to go home. I'm guessing after 9/11 any attempts at hijacking will be met a bit differently.

    The group of people on the plane that did act, only did so after they found out what had already happened with the others.
     

    churchmouse

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    I'll have to disagree just a bit about the people in the 3 other planes. At the time people had been told for 30-40 years or more not to try to stop hijackers. Before then the scum were hijacking the plane to go to a usually communist country and the people would be set free to go home. I'm guessing after 9/11 any attempts at hijacking will be met a bit differently.

    The group of people on the plane that did act, only did so after they found out what had already happened with the others.
    Some truth here. But there is little forgiveness in my heart when people fail to stand up. We have lost our ability to do this.
     

    Expat

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    I think I told this story before but I think it might bear repeating.
    One morning I heard screaming coming from the storage facility across the street. I ran outside to see what was going on (yes, I had my pistol on since I did get dressed that particular morning). I could see a guy assaulting a female. I yelled to the wife to call 911 as she had stepped out on the porch ( I am less likely to remember to carry my phone than my pistol) . I started yelling for him to stop. He was sitting on top of her. I walked across the street and up to the fence. I was starting to think that I might have to try to shoot him as he bounced her head off the pavement. I could not get any closer than I was, maybe 40-50 feet. But finally, he noticed my shouting, hopped up and they took off together. I spoke to the police then. They called back a little later and asked more questions but they said the female denied any of that happened and said they had never even been in the storage lot. What do you think she would have told the police if I had shot the little bastard?
     

    buckwacker

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    I think I told this story before but I think it might bear repeating.
    One morning I heard screaming coming from the storage facility across the street. I ran outside to see what was going on (yes, I had my pistol on since I did get dressed that particular morning). I could see a guy assaulting a female. I yelled to the wife to call 911 as she had stepped out on the porch ( I am less likely to remember to carry my phone than my pistol) . I started yelling for him to stop. He was sitting on top of her. I walked across the street and up to the fence. I was starting to think that I might have to try to shoot him as he bounced her head off the pavement. I could not get any closer than I was, maybe 40-50 feet. But finally, he noticed my shouting, hopped up and they took off together. I spoke to the police then. They called back a little later and asked more questions but they said the female denied any of that happened and said they had never even been in the storage lot. What do you think she would have told the police if I had shot the little bastard?
    This reminds me of a story a cousin told me about a buddy from high school. The buddy comes across some dude working a female over in an alley, visibly beating her. So the buddy runs up and knocks the guy out with a punch to the face, at which point the female begins screaming at and slapping the guy, who had just stopped the beating, about the face and head. So he told her **** you, punched her in the mouth, and walked off.
     

    OkieGirl

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    Quote below is from the link to the story. Roll that around in your head for a moment while you set a timer to eight minutes (the length of the attack). I'll be spending significantly more time at the range, my EDC is within my reach as I type this. The wolves are at the gate, Gentlemen.

    "Superintendent Timothy Bernhardt of the Upper Darby Police Department said officers were called to the 69th Street terminal around 10 p.m. Wednesday after the assault on the westbound train on the Market-Frankford Line.

    An employee of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority who was in the vicinity as the train went past called police to report that “something wasn’t right” with a woman aboard the train, Bernhardt said.

    SEPTA police waiting at the next stop found the woman and arrested a man. The woman was taken to a hospital.

    Fiston Ngoy, 35, has been charged with rape, aggravated indecent assault and related counts, according to Delaware County court records. Bernhardt said both SEPTA and Upper Darby Police are familiar with Ngoy."
     

    Keith_Indy

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    My initial impression without looking at the story was an assumption about the skin color of the perp and fear by the passengers of being labeled racist.

    Reading the story and seeing the mug shot doesn't disabuse me of this notion.
     

    Leo

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    Domestic violence is always a weird dynamic. I have seen a woman running into a store screaming while being chased by a man. People, and eventually LEO response gains control of the man, and then the victimized woman starts trying to push the officers off of "her man".

    I was at a motel and heard some commotion out side my door. A man is knocking the crap out of a woman, up against my truck. His response to my bark was " My whore Holmes" I don't even know why I said it, but I said " That's my truck" . We both paused he started walking away and instructed her to follow him, and she did. After they rounded the corner, I heard the beating resume.

    Having studied Psych in college, I can write all kinds of case study review about that phenomena, but social science jargon does not make it any less perplexing. Then we have the other side of the coin where well treated women decide to break marriage vows and use the full weight of legal system bias to not only leave him, but strip him of his dignity and wealth because she is bored.
     

    Ark

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    Domestic violence is always a weird dynamic. I have seen a woman running into a store screaming while being chased by a man. People, and eventually LEO response gains control of the man, and then the victimized woman starts trying to push the officers off of "her man".

    I was at a motel and heard some commotion out side my door. A man is knocking the crap out of a woman, up against my truck. His response to my bark was " My whore Holmes" I don't even know why I said it, but I said " That's my truck" . We both paused he started walking away and instructed her to follow him, and she did. After they rounded the corner, I heard the beating resume.

    Having studied Psych in college, I can write all kinds of case study review about that phenomena, but social science jargon does not make it any less perplexing. Then we have the other side of the coin where well treated women decide to break marriage vows and use the full weight of legal system bias to not only leave him, but strip him of his dignity and wealth because she is bored.
    Makes me feel better about the single life. Even though my arm gets tired sometimes. :40oz:
     
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