New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today

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  • BR8818

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    I'm 99.999% sure that is incorrect. Once approved, the lower receiver is the NFA item. You can strip all the other parts off and sell the lower receiver, but it still has to transfer on a Form4.
    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.
     

    tcecil88

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    I did a search of the word shotgun in the proposed rule and it came back with 34 hits, most notably the one below that I copied and pasted form page 24 of the proposed rule.

    "The worksheet assigned points to various criteria, as further described below.

    The NPRM explained that the proposed criteria and worksheet did not apply to firearms commonly referred to as “pistol grip shotguns,” as they were never designed to be held and fired using one hand (e.g., Mossberg Shockwave, Remington Tac-14).[1] See also 86 FR at 30828–29.

    As discussed in section II.B of this preamble, these firearms are specifically designed to be fired with two hands. ATF has always classified these weapons as “firearms” under the GCA, and not as “shotguns,” because they do not incorporate a shoulder stock and are not designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder like a shotgun. Nor has ATF classified these weapons as “pistols,” as they are not designed to be held and fired in one hand like a pistol. Thus, the addition of a “stabilizing brace” does not assist with single-handed firing, but instead provides surface area that allows for firing from the shoulder. Therefore, a “pistol grip shotgun” equipped with a “stabilizing brace” and a barrel of less than 18 inches is an NFA “firearm,” i.e., a short-barreled shotgun.[2]



    [1] See section II.B of this preamble for discussion on “pistol grip shotgun” classification letter.
    [2] As mentioned above, any classification that provides that a “pistol grip shotgun” is not an NFA firearm is no longer valid or authoritative and should be resubmitted to FATD for evaluation.



    [1] As mentioned above, any classification that provides that a “pistol grip shotgun” is not an NFA firearm is no longer valid or authoritative and should be resubmitted to FATD for evaluation.
     

    BR8818

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    Pretty sure thats not true. Needs xxxx out and they need to know. Otherwise its a form 1 sbr, in someone else’s possession. But maybe you can show that in the CFR?
    Here you go, this use to be under the ATF FAQ

    Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?

    A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
     

    yotehunt

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    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.
    Bwahahaha. The lower is 100% the NFA item. Thats why you have to have a serial number. If you temporarily put a longer barrel on, its still registered. If you want to make that permanent, you have to take it off the list via memo. You can but a short upper or barrel, but cannot readily buy a NFA lower. But you do what you think is right!

     

    OneBadV8

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    Ft Wayne
    I'm 99.999% sure that is incorrect. Once approved, the lower receiver is the NFA item. You can strip all the other parts off and sell the lower receiver, but it still has to transfer on a Form4.
    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.
    Pretty sure thats not true. Needs xxxx out and they need to know. Otherwise its a form 1 sbr, in someone else’s possession. But maybe you can show that in the CFR?
    Or xxxx out with a letter to the ATF. Agreed 100%.

    there are a TON of resources out there explaining that you CAN return an SBR back to Title 1 configuration (non sbr).

    seems like a waste of $200 to me, but you can do it. Pretty sure you just need to write them a letter saying that to remove it from the registry. Unless that changed.
     

    yotehunt

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    Here you go, this use to be under the ATF FAQ

    Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?

    A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
    And guess what, you still have to tell them its no longer a SBR NFA item.
     

    yotehunt

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    there are a TON of resources out there explaining that you CAN return an SBR back to Title 1 configuration (non sbr).

    seems like a waste of $200 to me, but you can do it. Pretty sure you just need to write them a letter saying that to remove it from the registry. Unless that changed.
    No said you cannot. My point is you cannot just take it apart and sell it. Who wants to explain they sold a nfa item that was used in a murder, and they didnt tell the ATF it was no longer used as an SBR. That will not hold up well.
     

    OneBadV8

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    No said you cannot. My point is you cannot just take it apart and sell it.
    it's in the link you shared.

    You can pull it apart, sell the parts.

    Send a Memo to the ATF, requesting them to remove it from the registry. And then you can sell the lower as a title 1 firearm. (Takes up to 3 months according to the article you linked)
     

    OneBadV8

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    Actually, reading it again. It sounds like you only have to remove it if they wanted to reregister it as another NFA item.

    I dunno, I wouldn't personally do it, but I suppose you could. Probably just to be safe, send them a letter and go on about your day :dunno:
     

    yotehunt

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    ^. 100 percent. I feel like that one has changed wording over the years. I can say that after the process and engraving, mine will be 100% xxxxx. Xxxx. At selling; for everything except OEM stamping. I asked the ATF this year back and he laughed and said, why wouldn’t you tell us?
     

    BR8818

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    Bwahahaha. The lower is 100% the NFA item. Thats why you have to have a serial number. If you temporarily put a longer barrel on, its still registered. If you want to make that permanent, you have to take it off the list via memo. You can but a short upper or barrel, but cannot readily buy a NFA lower. But you do what you think is right!

    This is false. This is the problem with NFA items people spreading false information either knowingly or not.

    The first time a seen a suppressor at the range I asked the guy who owned it how do you own one. He answered by stating a bunch of made up non-facts and made it sound like a peasant like me could never own one of these. Wasn't til years later I found out the guy was full of it, and was probably just "gatekeeping".
     

    OneBadV8

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    Ok guys, take a breather. Lots of info out there and good info in those links provided.

    Going back and forth will just lead to personal attacks and getting the mods involved.
     

    millsusaf

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    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.

    I'm certainly not going to claim I'm an NFA expert, but I do have quite a bit of experience with NFA items. I've never seen any info stating that simply removing the short barrel turns a registered/approved SBR lower receiver back to a title 1 firearm. Please share the info on that.

    Certainly it can be un-registered by simply notifying the ATF and then at that point it becomes a regular title1 lower receiver, but that differs from what you are describing.
     
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